Why Starmer failed - and what Burnham needs to get right

**Jon** (0:02)
This is a Global Production. The emotional scenes in the Commons on Wednesday reeling from the shock about the circumstances of the killing of Ann Widdecombe.

**Sarah Sackman** (0:12)
When you look at the level of abuse that myself and other MPs, particularly women, particularly women of colour, designed to hound you out of politics, to not express what you really think on an issue, it's corrosive, because I worry about what that means for our democracy. We have lost Joe Cox, Sir David Amess, now Ann Widdecombe.
The odds aren't great for MPs. You know, when I speak at schools and I'm talking to that young black girl, why would they go into politics knowing what I've just shared with you?

**Jon** (0:42)
On the day that Andy Burnham takes over the reins from Keir Starmer, and Westminster is still reeling from the shocking murder of Ann Widdecombe, we speak to Justice Minister, rising star and friend of Keir Starmer, Sarah Sackman. Welcome to The News Agents.
The News Agents. We're joined in the studio now by Sarah Sackman, the Minister of State for Courts and Legal Services, the MP for Golders Green and Finchley, or Finchley and Golders Green. And Sarah, it's very good to have you with us. We've had too few MPs from the 24 intake on these Friday episodes. So we're going to come to your life in politics and all of that and your brief. I wanted to start with the Commons on Wednesday because it was pretty emotional in there as the House of Commons, not just the Labour MPs, but the House of Commons bade farewell to a Prime Minister, your friend Keir Starmer.

**Sarah Sackman** (1:46)
It was deeply moving, Jon. And I thought, I must say, and I said this to her, I thought, Kemi Badenoch was pretty classy as well.
It was coming together, a real moment when Keir in his final PMQs was able to reflect on what his legacy has been, transforming the Labour Party into an electoral force again, leaving a strong domestic record on tackling child poverty, on getting house building going, investing in RNHS, getting those waiting lists down, and I think restoring the UK's reputation on the global stage. And you heard that in the tributes paid by MPs. I thought the other thing that was really remarkable is the way that he referenced people in the gallery who had really driven his politics. You know, he made this point that when you're in politics, who do you have in your mind's eye? And victims of domestic violence, people who'd lost their children to stabbings, and the way that we had combated that through our reforms, it really gave a sense of the man who I think has shown a huge amount of decency and has led our country to a place where he leaves it in a much better place than he found it.

**Jon** (2:56)
Sarah, there's an obvious follow-up question to this, what you've just described is, so why is he going?

**Sarah Sackman** (3:02)
I think that Keir recognized the point that he resigned, that notwithstanding all of that, he had become very unpopular. Local election results were dire.
And I think specifically the threat of reform and the idea of this Labour government for all its good work, becoming the handmaidens for reform is one that neither Keir nor the Parliamentary Labour Party could countenance. And so what we're looking at now is a new Prime Minister who will take us into the next election whenever that comes, to lead us and to take the fight to reform to the populist left and the populist right.

**Jon** (3:42)
You've been very close to Keir. I think you are near neighbours and have known each other for years and years and years. Your background is in the law, just as his is. Do you think he's been dealt a rough hand by the Labour Party?

**Sarah Sackman** (3:57)
I think Keir has done a remarkable job. I think, as I said, the way he transformed the Labour Party...

**Jon** (4:03)
That suggests you do think he's been dealt a rough hand.

**Sarah Sackman** (4:06)
I think he also came into office and faced huge challenges. I think the legacy of the previous government, in terms of public services on their knees, an economy that had been buffeted by COVID, by Brexit, but dreadful decision-making. And then look at the volatility, the global volatility he's had to deal with in government. I think it's been very, very tough.
But look, we've got to acknowledge...

**Jon** (4:28)
Sure, but a lot of politicians face those things. I wonder whether there were things where either the Labour Party was unreasonable to him. Do you think they were? Do you think they were impatient? Do you think all those MPs that were kind of lavishing praise on him were the same people who'd knifed him?