What's Behind the Drop in NYC's Reading Scores?

**Brian Lehrer** (0:12)
It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning again, everyone. Now we will look at New York City's troubling results on the state reading exams. Half of the city's public school students in grades three through eight scored below proficient this year.
A six-point drop from last year overall, which wipes out the seven-point gain city officials celebrated just 12 months ago as proof that their literacy overhaul was working. This includes a 14-point drop in third-grade scores on the state ELA test, English Language Arts. The city is years and many millions of dollars into transforming how reading is taught. If you didn't already know this, the effort which began under Mayor Adams and is being continued by the new administration, these tests are the main public measure of whether that is working, the so-called phonics approach to reading. But this year's results are so erratic that some advocates are asking whether the problem is in the classrooms or in the test itself. With us now to walk us through the results and help invite calls from third-grade teachers or anybody else in the system is Jessica Gould, WNYC and Gothamist Education Reporter. Hey, Jess, welcome back to the show.

**Jessica Gould** (1:29)
Hi, thank you.

**Brian Lehrer** (1:31)
And teachers, principals, reading specialists, who wants to call and help explain this? What do you think is really going on here? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692.
Parents, of course, you can weigh in as well. But we know we have the particular privilege in the summer of having a lot of teachers who are off at this time of day. So teachers, principals, others involved in reading instruction, and yes, always parents, 212-433-9692, call or text and help explain these results. And Jess, I see the headline is a six-point drop, but your reporting found it wasn't a clean six points across the board. So what are some of the variations you're seeing? I mentioned that breakout number of 14 points lower in third grade English language arts tests.

**Jessica Gould** (2:31)
Right. I mean, as you mentioned, there's the almost 14 point drop in third grade, and there was also an over 13 point drop in fifth grade. But then fourth grade, right in between the two, was minus six percentage points. So already you're seeing variation there that looks a little wonky. The kids who have been in the same system would be having such different results so close in years. Another wonky piece was we found in the Bed-Stuy area, District 16 of Brooklyn, every other year.
Even years were one way and the odd years were another, up and down. So we're seeing variation here that most people I talk to, suggest is probably related to something with the test, though nobody knows for sure yet.

**Brian Lehrer** (3:29)
One change to the test, as I understand it, is it was the first time that third graders were required to take the test on a computer. Is anyone connecting that to the results?

**Jessica Gould** (3:41)
I've heard concerns about this phase in of computer-based testing and that there's not typing training, per se, for kids in the public schools, certainly not in the lower grades, across the board. And so there has been concern about how that affects them. And there was a small essay question, I believe, on the test. So that did include having to type a little bit.
It could be, but at the same time, as I mentioned, the fifth graders were also down by about the same amount. And they, you know, it's not their first year on using computer. So it may be a factor, but it's unclear.

**Brian Lehrer** (4:28)
And the Teachers Union thinks it knows what went wrong. Here's a minute of UFT President Michael Mulgrew, who spoke with Jess yesterday, describing what changed inside the schools this year, as he sees it.

**Michael Mulgrew** (4:41)
It's using multiple programs with the same students.
Use foundations, use Hagerty, use all, everything that's on the shelf, you use them all. Now, why would somebody ask you, why would somebody push for you to be doing all of these things? But what you're supposed to do is you have one basic curriculum.
You can fill in different things off of it. But the whole idea is that curriculum is being chosen because that's based off the needs of the students in your school, right? Then you align your professional development and you make sure the assessments that you're using match the curriculum that you're using. Because if I'm using a Hagerty assessment versus a foundation assessment, that's a different thing, right? So they went back to, we want you to do all of this stuff and we want all the paperwork. So they love paperwork at Central. That's it. They love paperwork.