The Stunning Rise of the Democratic Socialists of America

**SPEAKER_1** (0:00)
Jira by Atlassian, where your team and your coding agents work from the same context. Try it free at jira.dev. That's J-I-R-A dot D-E-V.

**Michael Barbaro** (0:12)
From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily.
This summer, Democratic Socialists have mounted their biggest and most successful attempt yet to redefine the Democratic Party.

**SPEAKER_3** (0:27)
48 hours after Democratic Socialists won in two New York Congressional districts, the implications are still being felt, and this really could just be the start.

**Michael Barbaro** (0:35)
By defeating its candidates in primary after primary, from the East Coast, Janice Lewis George is poised to become the first Democratic Socialist mayor in the history of the nation's capital.

**SPEAKER_4** (0:47)
To the West Coast, Democratic Socialists scored another primary victory, this time in Colorado's first congressional district.

**SPEAKER_5** (0:54)
To swing states, Democrat Socialists won several races, notably in Michigan.

**SPEAKER_6** (0:59)
Chris Rapp, the Democratic Party's nominee in the third district of Pennsylvania, is also a member of the Democratic Socialists of America.

**Michael Barbaro** (1:06)
And finally, to the heart of red America.

**SPEAKER_3** (1:09)
Let's talk Florida.

**SPEAKER_7** (1:11)
Democratic Socialist Angie Nixon crushed Alex Vindman.

**Michael Barbaro** (1:15)
In the process, Americans' views of Democratic Socialists and Socialism itself are changing.

**SPEAKER_8** (1:23)
Socialism up like a rocket. Look at this. Two in three Democrats have a favorable view of Socialism.

**SPEAKER_9** (1:30)
Related to CBS News, Poll found Democrats view Socialism more favorably than Capitalism.

**SPEAKER_8** (1:34)
Democratic Socialists of America, a plus 17 point net favorability rating on Democrats. Simply put, they are a better bland at this point than Democrats in Congress.

**Michael Barbaro** (1:45)
But as its electoral success grows, the organization at the heart of the movement is confronting big unresolved questions about what it stands for, what exactly its relationship to the Democratic Party should be, and what level of compromise is required to become a lasting political force. Today, my colleague, political correspondent Charlie Homans, on the rise and the limitations of the DSA. Today, it's Wednesday, August 26th.
Charlie, welcome back to the show.

**Charles Homans** (2:29)
Thanks for having me.

**Michael Barbaro** (2:30)
My pleasure. So by a lot of measures, this has been the summer of the Democratic Socialist. And here on The Daily, we have spent a lot of time focused on Democratic Socialist candidates and the races that they are running in, but not on the organization itself that's at the heart of this movement, which is the Democratic Socialist of America, the DSA.
And so that's where you come in, Charlie, because you have spent the last few weeks reporting on the DSA and how it made this midterm election to a large degree about socialism.

**Charles Homans** (3:09)
That's right. DSA has been around for a long time in various forms. But for all intents and purposes, this group wasn't really on the radar of a lot of people in politics, and I think the general public, until this past year, starting when Zoran Mamdani won in New York, and then continuing on through what's been a really pretty remarkable run of congressional Democratic primary wins. So I was interested in better understanding the organization itself. And I spent weeks talking to anyone who had talked to me in DSA, talking to the candidates, watching them campaigning.
And came away feeling that this is a real force, a rising force in Democratic politics.
And also that as it's growing its footprint in American politics, that it might be its own worst enemy in terms of its future.

**Michael Barbaro** (3:59)
Hmm. And what do you mean by that exactly?

**Charles Homans** (4:02)
So you have to understand that DSA is not built as a political party. It exists inside of the Democratic Party these days somewhat, but it doesn't work like a party. It's a much more fractious organization, and it has a lot of constituencies with very different ideas about how to pursue their aims in politics.
And as I explore deeper into the history of the organization and American socialism more generally, I realized that these were really debates that have been happening throughout much of the history of American socialism. And they're happening inside of DSA now in a way that is really going to affect its future as a force in American politics.

**Michael Barbaro** (4:42)
Well, just explain then that history of American socialism that inevitably brings us to the DSA and to its inherent fractiousness.

**Charles Homans** (4:55)
So to understand DSA, I think you need to understand the early history of socialism in this country.
And that means going back to the early 1900s, which was the previous heyday of socialism here. This is the period right after the Gilded Age, when you had some Americans making just really enormous amounts of money, these sort of railroad barons, timber barons, coal mining, that kind of thing. At the same time, many Americans are working in these industries or in agriculture and there's this huge wealth gap between the rich and everybody else. And this creates a lot of inevitable political reactions. People who are trying to envision a way of redistributing the wealth. And one thing that comes out of that eventually is this American form of socialism and specifically the Socialist Party of America, which in the early 1900s was the largest and most organized Socialist Party in the United States. And Socialist candidates win a fair amount of elections across the country. They're not a massive movement, but Socialists held assembly seats in a lot of states that would surprise you today. Places like Oklahoma, Texas, the Upper Midwest, Socialist mayors in a lot of cities, in New York, California, really all over the place.