The State of Refugees Globally Ahead of World Refugee Day

**Brian Lehrer** (0:10)
Brian Lehrer on WNYC. So tomorrow, June 20th, is World Refugee Day.
It's to honor the more than 117 million people around the world who've been forced to flee their homes because of war or persecution. Every year, June 20th, is World Refugee Day. This year, the figure released last year by the UN Refugee Agency of 117 million is actually down slightly from last year, the first annual decline in a decade. But the reasons behind that decline are complicated and not all good news. Joining us now is David Miliband, President and CEO of the International Rescue Committee. The IRC is one of the largest refugee aid organizations in the world, headquartered right here in New York.
David is joining us from Eastern Ukraine, where he's been spending the last few days near the front lines in the Donbass, meeting with families, living through what his organization is calling a tragically forgotten crisis. We'll also talk some global politics, given David Miliband's background as former British Foreign Minister, and he joins us now from Ukraine. David, thanks for joining us for World Refugee Day. Welcome back to WNYC.

**David Miliband** (1:27)
Yeah, thank you very much. It's a great honor to be with you to a week that you started with the mayor. I'm honored to be finishing the week with you.

**Brian Lehrer** (1:35)
Want to start in Ukraine? I think the Iran War and before that the Gaza War have taken the spotlight off the four-year-old Russian invasion.

**David Miliband** (1:46)
We should give some airtime to the situation in Ukraine because it is the world's largest refugee crisis. About five million people displaced from their homes inside the country and four million refugees in neighboring states. About 100,000 have come all the way to the United States. The Ukraine War is a travesty, really. It's obviously an invasion of one peaceful country by its neighbor. It's already a longer war than the First World War.
I've been meeting victims of the war, civilians trapped in their homes, civilians who've been chased from their homes, civilians who today are living under drone threat every day. And so this is very much an active conflict. And it's one in which the military commentary suggests that Ukraine is doing better. It certainly defended itself adequately. It's even managing to hold its own against the Russian war machine. But what doesn't get much play is the fact that the civilians bearing the brunt of the social impact of the war, are civilians who are mothers who've lost their sons. We've met them today.
Wives whose husbands are at war. Husbands whose wives and kids have taken refugee status in Europe. And so this social aspect of the conflict is something that's of direct concern to the International Rescue Committee as a humanitarian organization. It's been really humbling to see the mobile health teams working, the mental health support that's being offered, the help for kids who are missing out on education. And that's really why I'm here hoping to draw some attention to the plight of the people of Ukraine as the commentary focuses on the military balance of power.

**Brian Lehrer** (3:31)
Well, we're glad to help you do that. And I see that the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees Office has data that about 300,000 Ukrainians returned home in just the first half of last year, even with the war going on. Hard to fathom, but people are going back into a country that's still being actively shelled. Did you speak to anyone with that experience, and what did they tell you about their motivations, or maybe what sort of situations they came back to?

**David Miliband** (4:00)
Well, this gives me a good chance to explain something that you said in your introduction about not all returns being the same. In the last year, about 14 million refugees have returned home around the world, including the 300,000 that you mentioned who've come back to Ukraine. But they've come to Western Ukraine. They've come to cities like Lviv, which is on the Ukraine-Poland border. They haven't come back to these areas that are in conflict. I mean, amongst the others who've returned home, if you like, for quote unquote good reasons, are Syrians who've gone back. I mean, last year I was on your show talking about the revolution in Syria and the fact that Syrian refugees were beginning to go home. However, the largest number of refugee returns are Afghans who've been pushed out of Pakistan, pushed out of Iran.
And so that's why we talk about different kinds of refugee returns. Some people coming back because their countries are more peaceful and actually Western Ukraine is relatively stable.
Certainly Syria is more stable, but Afghanistan certainly isn't stable and refugees being forced back is quite wrong, especially if they face threats from the governing authorities. It's also worth pointing out that in addition to the 14 million refugees who've returned home over the last year, about 14 million new refugees have been created, newly displaced people. You referred to the Iran-Lebanon wars. Certainly there's new displacement in Lebanon. Also the Sudan conflict continues to grow in size and scale with more people being displaced.