The Iranians Who Want More War

**SPEAKER_1** (0:00)
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**Michael Barbaro** (0:29)
From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro.
After 13 consecutive days of airstrikes, the United States and Iran have temporarily paused their fighting. But the conflict could resume at any moment. And inside Iran, a small but powerful faction is determined to make sure that it does. Today, Abdi Latif Dahir and Farnaz Fassihi explain the profound divisions within Iran about whether to keep fighting or to try to make peace. It's Tuesday, July 28th.

**Abdi Latif Dahir** (1:22)
This was a very choreographed event from the beginning.

**Michael Barbaro** (1:30)
A few weeks ago, the Iranian government allowed my colleague, Abdi Latif Dahir, into the country.

**Abdi Latif Dahir** (1:37)
Immediately we landed in Tehran. We got through immigration and essentially you're met there by your minder.

**Michael Barbaro** (1:45)
It was not long after the US and Iran had signed a tentative peace deal, and Abdi became the first Times reporter to get into Iran in months.

**Abdi Latif Dahir** (1:56)
We had two government-appointed translators and a guide who pretty much went everywhere with us. We could not leave the hotel essentially without planning with them where we wanted to go, what we wanted to see.

**Michael Barbaro** (2:11)
And he was there for a very specific purpose, to observe the multi-day funeral service for Iran's former Ayatollah, Ali Khomeini, who had been killed by the US and Israel in the early days of the Iran War. And Abdi says his every movement at the funeral services was heavily monitored.

**Abdi Latif Dahir** (2:33)
They listened in on pretty much all the interviews, and one of the minors was also very open with us, and essentially he told me that yes, at the end of every day, he basically was expected to send a report about our activities, where we went, what we did during that day.

**Michael Barbaro** (2:57)
Abdi, why do you think that Iran let you into the country? What do you think that they wanted you to see?

**Abdi Latif Dahir** (3:06)
I think they definitely wanted us to see the way people had come out to mourn Ali Khamenei, the Supreme Leader. So we were very much in the middle of the capital, the center of Tehran.
For days on end, you couldn't escape the soundscape that was coming from outside, the chanting, the mourning, the wailing. You kind of felt that you had been signed up for this very much stage-managed choreographed scene.
So you had the first day where the dignitaries from all across the world came to pay their respects. And then there was a procession held at Azadi Square in which the body of Khamenei and his relatives were now being viewed by the public. And there were millions who showed up that day, throughout the day, and essentially came to see the bodies, despite the heat, despite the haze, despite everything else. People came from all over the country. They were young, they were old, they were on wheelchairs, they were on crutches. The journalists were definitely being allowed to go on bridges and on top of the buildings so that we could see the sea of people who are coming through. You definitely got a sense that even the access to these buildings were choreographed in such a way that it was like you had to see, you had to experience how everybody has come from all over the country to mourn their leader.

**Michael Barbaro** (4:42)
Is grief the prevailing feeling that you get from this crowd? What exactly are you hearing from them?

**Abdi Latif Dahir** (4:51)
Many people were in tears, they were very sad, but they, even when they were crying, their expressions would very quickly harden into anger and defiance.

**Farnaz Fassihi** (5:04)
Obviously, I have to introduce you to them.

**Abdi Latif Dahir** (5:06)
And I remember talking to this woman, her name was Fereshte Sultan Ali, and I watched her for a while before I approached her because she was carrying this flag that talked about revenge, but she was really in tears. And at some point when she calmed down, you know, I approached her and very quickly this idea of negotiations came up and she was very opposed to that.

**SPEAKER_5** (5:32)
I'm against the negotiation.

**SPEAKER_6** (5:33)
This is a negotiation. We shout in the streets, don't negotiate, no negotiation, just revenge.