The gut-brain connection | Michael Gershon, M.D.

**Peter Attia** (0:11)
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Now, without further delay, here's today's episode. My guest today is Dr. Mike Gershon. Mike is a professor of pathology and cell biology at Columbia University, where his research focuses on the neural control of the gastrointestinal tract and the role of serotonin in the gut as a neurotransmitter. Mike earned his medical degree from Cornell University, followed by a postdoctoral fellowship at Oxford. Mike has received numerous awards and honors over the years, published hundreds of peer-reviewed papers on the nervous system, and even authored a book on the role of the brain and the GI system.
This episode's different from, I think, a lot of our episodes. And truthfully, I think it comes across more as a bit of a med school lecture, which is kind of how it felt to me. It was really interesting, but I think at the surface, doesn't really come across as highly applicable. And I think the reality of it is, you just sort of have to get through some of the embryology, anatomy, and neurophysiology of the gut and the brain to kind of understand how these things coexist.
So I just want to be honest and set expectations. If you're coming into this thinking that this is going to be a podcast that's about how to eat this and not that and affect your gut biome, it's really not about that. This is a much more basic discussion. And I mean basic, not in simple, but I mean basic in more elemental explanation of how this system works. And truthfully, I learned a lot in this episode, much more than I normally do. A lot of times I go into podcasts kind of knowing the subject matter pretty well and maybe increasing my knowledge by 20% or something like that. But I think this was pretty different. So I think what I would just say is rather than give you a blow by blow of everything we talked about here, which would probably take me 20 minutes, I would say go into this, assuming you're not gonna know much of what we talk about, and you'll come out of this with a much greater appreciation for how your gut and your brain are connected.
And unfortunately, I think we're only now beginning to think about how to translate that to clinical utility. So in other words, I think that we don't yet have all of the insights. I don't come away from this episode saying, oh, all you need to do is eat this and your gut's gonna be healthier, and if your gut's gonna be healthier, then your brain's gonna be better or vice versa. So maybe you'll come out the other end of this podcast feeling like you've got it figured out. I certainly don't, but nevertheless, I feel like I have a much better foundational knowledge to evaluate half of the snake oil stuff that is out there, which I mean, I gotta be honest with you, most of what's out there on this topic is utter nonsense. Commercial tests that promise miracles that don't make any sense, and supplements that just don't make any sense, and I think you'll come away from this kind of understanding how difficult it is to try to make the claims that are out there. So without further delay, please enjoy my conversation with Dr. Mike Gershon.
Hey Mike, thanks so much for making time to speak with me today about a subject matter that I know very little about, but know enough to know that it probably matters, and I think that's why we're gonna talk about it.

**Michael Gershon** (3:47)
Okay, I'll do my best.

**Peter Attia** (3:49)
Let's kind of start with, what is it that has brought you so much curiosity in an area over what I'm guessing 60 years now, is probably how long you've been studying the GI system?

**Michael Gershon** (3:59)
Yes, I guess that shows you it's a very difficult subject because I've been studying it for 60 years and there's still more to study. In other words, I haven't gotten very far.