The Global Story:Was World War Two worth it? Some US conservatives have doubts

Asma Khalid (0:00)

Hey there, it's Asma Khalid from The Global Story. We're the podcast here at the BBC that focuses on where the world and America intersect. And today, we're sharing an episode about a debate that we all found fascinating. It started with a remarkable exchange between Tucker Carlson and the British conservative politician Jacob Rees-Mogg over a question that many of us probably thought was long settled. Were Britain and America right to fight Nazi Germany in the Second World War?

Now, it might sound like an argument about history, but the thing is this debate is playing out on parts of the American right in real time today. And it has some major implications for how the US thinks about its role in the world these days. And a reminder that if you'd like to hear more from us, you can always subscribe to the Global Story wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. Now, on to today's episode. It was hosted by my co-host Tristan Redman. Hope you all enjoy.

Tristan Redman (0:55)

If you live in Europe or the United States, the chances are you thought the rights and wrongs of World War II were mostly settled, which is why some of us were surprised to find out that the podcaster Tucker Carlson not only disagreed, but he'd been debating the question on his podcast with a British conservative politician called Jacob Rees-Mogg.

Tucker Carlson (1:18)

Hitler did not want to go to war with the UK.

Jacob Rees-Mogg (1:20)

He thought we wouldn't do anything about Poland as we'd done nothing.

Tucker Carlson (1:23)

Hitler repeatedly said, I do not want to go to war with the UK.

Jacob Rees-Mogg (1:26)

As we'd done nothing about Czechoslovakia, he thought we'd do nothing about Poland.

Tucker Carlson (1:29)

Well, you acknowledged that Hitler said repeatedly in public and through diplomacy. I do not want war with the UK.

Jacob Rees-Mogg (1:33)

You seem to be putting more trust in Hitler than I would.

Tristan Redman (1:37)

Now if you're British, the chances are you're surprised that Tucker Carlson had even heard of Jacob Rees-Mogg, let alone faced off against him in a podcast. The conversation that resulted from this clash between two conservatives of contrasting views about ten days ago has been unsettling some people and we've been mulling it over ever since.

SPEAKER_5 (2:01)

It's insane that we are having this conversation, isn't it?

SPEAKER_6 (2:04)

It's a completely childish, sophomoric series of questions.

SPEAKER_5 (2:09)

If ever there was a war that very clearly was a good war, a good war on our side, then it is the Second World War.

SPEAKER_6 (2:16)

I didn't agree with everything that Tucker Carlson said, but the fundamental point he is correct.

Tucker Carlson (2:20)

I don't know how else to put this. Mogg, truly Mogg, Tucker Carlson, truly.

Tristan Redman (2:26)

So today, we're making a podcast about that. From the BBC, I'm Tristan Redman in London. Today on The Global Story, is World War II really up for debate again? Why conservatives on opposite sides of the Atlantic may not see eye to eye on this chapter of history?

Later in the show, I'll be speaking to the British conservative politician Lord Daniel Finkelstein, whose parents were the survivors of a Nazi concentration camp and a Russian gulag.

Daniel Finkelstein (3:05)

There's a very good reason why Tucker Carlson drives at the Second World War. It is precisely because the Second World War disproved the America First hypothesis. They basically made fools of themselves.

Tristan Redman (3:16)

First, though, I wanted to speak to our colleague Adam Fleming. Adam hosts our sister show Newscast.

Adam Fleming (3:22)

Can I give you some more of my credentials to justify why I'm here?

Tristan Redman (3:25)

Please.

Adam Fleming (3:26)

So I was the BBC's chief political correspondent in 2021 and 2022, and Jacob Rees-Mogg was quite prominent in the government. Before that, I was reporting on the negotiations to get the UK out of the EU, and he was quite prominent in that as well.

Tristan Redman (3:41)

Well, it's great to have you with us, Adam. You're very well qualified to give us chapter and verse on Jacob Rees-Mogg. I think we need to, for the benefit of our international listeners and viewers and American listeners and viewers, explain who is this guy, Jacob Rees-Mogg.

Adam Fleming (3:54)

Jacob Rees-Mogg was a conservative MP. He was elected in 2010 when David Cameron was the Prime Minister, and then he lost his seat at the last general election in the UK, which is in 2024

He made his name as a campaigner for Brexit, for the UK's departure from the EU.

Jacob Rees-Mogg (4:10)