The Fight Tearing Apart Silicon Valley

**SPEAKER_1** (0:02)
The Opinions Podcast from New York Times Opinion, bringing you a mix of conversations and new ideas, featuring the voices of our writers and columnists.

**SPEAKER_2** (0:13)
To me, the single most underestimated force in international relations is actually stupidity.

**SPEAKER_1** (0:18)
Including.

**Mike Isaac** (0:19)
Jamil Bowie.

**SPEAKER_1** (0:20)
Trussie McMillan Cottom.

**Natalie Kitroeff** (0:21)
Michelle Goldberg.

**SPEAKER_1** (0:22)
Thomas Friedman. And many more. Find The Opinions wherever you get your podcasts.

**Natalie Kitroeff** (0:31)
From The New York Times, I'm Natalie Kitroeff.
For years, a debate has been simmering in Silicon Valley over the right way to build AI. Should the technology be open and free for anyone in the world to use? Or should we tightly control how it's made and who can access it? This week, that debate reached a boiling point, dividing the country's top AI companies into two opposing camps, and drawing in some of the biggest names in tech. Today, my colleague Mike Isaac on what started that firestorm, and how it could end up reshaping the future of artificial intelligence.
It's Friday, July 31st. Mike, welcome back to The Daily. It is always a pleasure to have you here. Hi.

**Mike Isaac** (1:40)
Thanks for having me back.

**Natalie Kitroeff** (1:42)
You actually played a not insignificant role, in this AI debate, blowing up, bursting into the open this week. So just start by telling me what happened.

**Mike Isaac** (1:56)
Yeah. So on Tuesday morning, I'm doing my like normal coffee run to go to Starbucks up the hill from my house. I got my Venti iced Americano in my hand. Well, two of them actually, cause I-

**Natalie Kitroeff** (2:09)
Two.

**Mike Isaac** (2:09)
I know it's really embarrassing. I have one safe for later.
Wow. So I get a ping from someone at Metta saying, Mark is going to call you pretty soon. And I realize they're talking about Mark Zuckerberg.

**Natalie Kitroeff** (2:24)
And we should just say, right, it's a pretty big deal that Mark is calling you, Mike. I mean, this is not a guy who typically talks to newspapers these days.

**Mike Isaac** (2:35)
Yeah. I mean, he's not a huge fan of the mainstream media these days. I have not talked to Mark Zuckerberg on the record in at length on a phone call for three years, I want to say. You know, the point being, when I get a call from Mark Zuckerberg, I know it is important and something he really cares about.
And we start talking as I finally get in front of my computer. And it is immediately clear to me, he's there to start chucking grenades at his competitors.

**Natalie Kitroeff** (3:08)
What do you mean by that?

**Mike Isaac** (3:10)
So the polite way of doing it is to not mention anyone by name. But it is very clear he was aiming squarely at Anthropic and OpenAI, which are two of the biggest technology companies in Silicon Valley and widely considered the leaders in artificial intelligence right now.
And so his point of view was these two companies have too much power and too much say over where this is headed in terms of how we build AI. And more people should have a voice in building that next frontier of technology. And I think while it is a sort of self-interested argument that he's making, it also aligns with the way a lot of other people in the industry think.

**Natalie Kitroeff** (3:55)
Okay. And this folds into a debate that has been very public over the last few weeks. Just give that context, lay out exactly what he's actually talking about.

**Mike Isaac** (4:07)
Yeah. So in recent weeks, we've seen a bunch of Silicon Valley companies really split into two camps over how AI should be shared and developed. In one camp, you have OpenAI and Anthropic, which are both saying AI is super dangerous and we need to keep a really tight lid on how we develop it and who can access it just to be safe. And then you have in the other camp, companies like Meta, Microsoft, NVIDIA, who are saying, actually, we need to share this technology really widely. And clamping down on it only serves to benefit the companies that are in the lead in the AI race, namely OpenAI and Anthropic.
Now, I should say, this debate over the sharing of tech and whether it should be open or closed is a long-standing one across Silicon Valley. The whole AI race is really just the latest version of it.

**Natalie Kitroeff** (5:08)
And Mike, why exactly did this argument erupt right now at this moment? What actually kicked it off?

**Mike Isaac** (5:15)
I think this debate really kicked into overdrive a few weeks ago with the introduction of this powerful new Chinese AI model called Kimi.