Polygon’s Endgame: Polygon 2.0 with Sandeep Nailwal & Mihailo Bjelic

**Ryan** (0:04)
Bankless Nation, today, we've got an episode for you with the founders of Polygon. We are talking about the Polygon Endgame. This release, this software release, this upgrade that Polygon is doing, they call it Polygon 2.0.
Why is this important? Well, Polygon is one of the most used chains in crypto, and I think that in itself is a massive accomplishment. There's also been some criticism of Polygon in the past, some critiques that it's just a side chain, and maybe it doesn't have the Ethereum alignment that the marketing says it does.
I think the release of Polygon 2 will silence the critics. There's a lot of decentralization going on in today's conversation, including a path forward for the Polygon proof-of-stake chain. A few things we talk about. Number one, how Polygon is scaling Ethereum using ZK technology. Number two, a promise Polygon made to the community to upgrade the Polygon proof-of-stake chain and change it to a roll-up, more specifically, a Vellidium. We'll talk about what they're doing there. Number three, we'll talk about Polygon's big token upgrade, what they're doing with the Matic token. They're converting it to even more of a work token. Interesting discussion follows there. They don't see Matic being a money token.
And number four, we conclude with what is going on with Layer 2? Is the infrastructure wars, as they were called in today's episode. David, what were your takes on this episode?

**David** (1:23)
Well, we all know that we are in the middle of the Layer 2 war. So the Layer 2 wars are definitely heating up, especially here at ETHCC. And Polygon's transition to Polygon 2 also enters into the game, their strategy for going from a single chain to many, many, many chains.
We of course have the OP stack, the ZK stack. Arbitrum recently has now Orbitz.
Now Polygon has their fully-fledged ecosystem to have what they call supernets to also fit into the world of all of these Layer 2 platforms that want to turn into standards for horizontal scaling. So we can all have infinite block space, especially by the time this next bull market comes around, which lately seems to be coming a little bit closer and a little bit sooner than I think we all anticipated. So I think listeners are going to learn a ton in this episode about Polygon, about one of the most used networks that we have on Ethereum. Before we get into the episode, quick disclosures. Polygon is a sponsor to Bankless. Ryan here is also an advisor to Polygon. I also have some small amount of Poly tokens as well.
Polygon has been around for a while and we're big fans. And so those are our disclosures. You can see all of our disclosures at bankless.com/disclosures. All right, let's go ahead and hear from Sandeep and Mihalo, the two co-founders of Polygon. But first, a moment to talk about some of these fantastic sponsors that make this show possible, especially Kraken, our preferred exchange for crypto in 2023 If you are not prepared for a bull market, you better get prepared. You can get prepared by getting an account with Kraken right now. There is a link in the show notes to get started. Kraken Pro has easily become the best crypto trading platform in the industry. The place I use to check the charts and the crypto prices even when I'm not looking to place a trade. On Kraken Pro, you'll have access to advanced charting tools, real-time market data, and lightning fast trade execution all inside their spiffy new modular interface. Kraken's new customizable modular layout lets you tailor your trading experience to suit your needs. Pick and choose your favorite modules and place them anywhere you want in your screen. With Kraken Pro, you have that power. Whether you are a seasoned pro or just starting out, join thousands of traders who trust Kraken Pro for their crypto trading needs. Visit pro.kraken.com to get started today.
Introducing Polygon 2.0, the value layer for the internet. For too long, the limitations of blockchains have held back app development and stifled user adoption. The internet allows anyone to create and exchange information. What's missing is a value layer that lets anyone exchange, store, and program value. That's where Polygon 2 comes in. Polygon Labs has unveiled a series of innovations that will radically alter the Polygon ecosystem and Web3 as a whole. By leveraging groundbreaking ZK innovations such as Polygon ZKEVM, the next iteration of the best-in-class Plonky 2 proving system, and a first-of-its-kind ZK-powered interoperability layer, Polygon 2 will give users and devs unlimited scalability and unified liquidity. Right now, there is a Polygon improvement proposal regarding a potential ZK-powered upgrade of Polygon Proof-of-Stake. If approved, Polygon Proof-of-Stake would become a Layer 2 ZKEVM Vellidium. So make your voice heard on this proposal by joining the Polygon Discord today. You have a chance to help the Polygon community give the Internet the value layer it deserves.