Paul Conti, M.D.: The psychological toll of a pandemic, and the societal problems it has highlighted

**Peter Attia** (0:11)
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Now, without further delay, here's today's episode.
Welcome back to another COVID-19 episode of The Drive podcast. My guest this week is Dr. Paul Conti. Some of you may recognize that name as Paul was a previous guest on the show about a year and a half ago when we spoke about mental health, depression, trauma, and a number of other things. On this episode, we kind of pick up a little bit of that thread, but obviously talk much more specifically through the lens of the anxiety, trauma, uncertainty that many people are experiencing in the midst of the pandemic, the quarantine itself, the isolation, the uncertainty that comes from it, both economically, socially, politically, et cetera. Paul and I go off on a number of tangents here that I think on some level speak to societal problems, societal problems on other levels speak to challenges that we all have at the individual level. So I hope you'll enjoy this as a bit of a deviation from the normal flow of information as it pertains to some of the more technical aspects of this, which we'll obviously continue to return to, but I found this to be a very helpful discussion and frankly, the type of discussion that Paul and I will often find ourselves having in the midst of situations like this, but hopefully by being able to have this discussion and share it with you, some of you may find value in this. So without further delay, please enjoy my discussion today with Dr. Paul Conti.
Hey Paul, thank you so much for making time to talk this afternoon. I know you're even busier than you normally are, but I know you appreciate that some good can probably come of us setting some time aside to talk.

**Paul Conti** (2:27)
Thank you very much, and I so appreciate you having me back on. It's such an important time, and there's so much to think about and talk about, and thank you for taking the time to have me on.

**Peter Attia** (2:39)
So Paul, before we jump into some of the stuff I really wanted to talk about, it's probably worth you sharing with people your own experience with what has to be believed as a presumptive diagnosis of COVID-19. You got sicker than hell about a month ago, as did one of your children, and as you've described those symptoms to me, they are very classic for the diagnosis you're having, and you're no stranger to getting the flu and things like that, but tell folks a little bit about what you experienced.

**Paul Conti** (3:08)
My wife and my two-year-old, both just had malaise, mild symptoms, but my six-year-old, who were kind of like carbon copies of one another, she had pretty significant symptoms by pediatric standards, so I kind of knew it was coming. And I had the malaise and just generally not feeling good, and that was there for a couple of days, and then I very rapidly got very, very sick in a way that felt different than flus or food poisonings or other illnesses. Felt extremely hot, alternating with really terrible chills that kind of took over, along with an awful headache and this just deep nausea, not like I've experienced before. And interestingly, I wasn't congested. It was strange to start to have a feeling of shortness of breath, really having to catch my breath and start taking deep breaths and to be that sick but to not have any congestion.
It was scary. I mean, I remember at one point I was in the shower and I had the water turned up high enough to scald me. Like it should have been really painful. And I was just shivering and I had goosebumps and just things that haven't happened before. And I could really see the lethality in someone who has some of the medical comorbidities I'm fortunate not to have or is older.
And it was scary, it was scary.

**Peter Attia** (4:33)
Well, I think it also kind of gives you an interesting perspective to be able to talk about the stuff I want to talk about with you today. As you know, I've been spending the past month trying to figure out how to be useful. And that's required more starts and stops and fits and starts than normal. Because there is this feeling of helplessness. You and I were talking about this earlier, which is like you have this desire to do something, but at the same time you feel like you can't really do anything.