NATO urged to intercept Russian drones after Ukraine attack

Charlotte Gallagher (0:00)

This is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Charlotte Gallagher, and at 14 Hours GMT on Monday, the 14th of September, these are our main stories. As Moscow attacks a train station near the Polish border, there's a call for NATO to shoot down Russian drones over Ukraine. We hear about Africa's biggest ever share sale, with thousands of Nigerians expected to invest. And as Canada's trade war with the US intensifies, Prime Minister Mark Carney says he wants to form a special alliance with the EU.

Also in this podcast, the trove of historical artifacts found in Buckingham Palace, and the man who made Jane Austen raunchy.

Nicholas Danbridge (0:49)

Are you content to be known as the man who sexed up Jane Austen?

Andrew Davies (0:54)

Yeah, I don't mind it at all.

Charlotte Gallagher (1:01)

We start with developments in Ukraine. As a US-based research group, the Institute for the Study of War says NATO should consider intercepting Russian drones in Ukrainian airspace. The call comes a day after Russia attacked a railway station near the Polish border. There were senior European officials on the trains who had just passed through the same area, including the former British Prime Minister Boris Johnson.

The EU foreign policy chief, Kaya Kalas, said the attack was aimed at frightening Western countries.

Kaya Kalas (1:31)

It is clearly meant to scare Western countries from supporting Ukraine, from going to Ukraine. It was clearly a message to the Western world. I think we should act the opposite. We should show that we are there for Ukraine and we are not scared off because otherwise, you know, Russia will just achieve what they want.

Charlotte Gallagher (1:51)

And NATO's Secretary General, Mark Rutte, called the attack on the Ukrainian train reckless.

Mark Rutte (1:57)

Russia is struggling in Ukraine and continues to lash out with reckless and dangerous attacks, including on civilian infrastructure close to NATO territory. The strike on a passenger train in Ukraine yesterday shows how desperate Putin has become. He thinks that he can stop us from supporting Ukraine and that he can undermine our unity.

He is wrong. Our answer is to increase support to Ukraine so it has what it needs to defend itself. And our commitment to NATO's collective defence is ironclad. We will always do what is necessary to protect every inch of our territory.

Charlotte Gallagher (2:44)

As for NATO intercepting Russian drones in Ukraine, Yuriy Sak, a former adviser to the Ministry of Defence in Ukraine, said he didn't think that would be possible.

Yuriy Sak (2:53)

Of course NATO should get involved in our view.

But at this stage, I don't think NATO has the capacity or capability to actually deal with these kind of threats. And what is more possible and plausible is for NATO countries to closer cooperate with Ukraine with a view to finding and beginning mass production of interceptors that will allow us to deal with this new threat of jet-powered drones.

Charlotte Gallagher (3:15)

So how influential is the Institute for the Study of War, which released the report? I've been speaking to our diplomatic correspondent James Landale, who's in Kyiv.

James Landale (3:24)

This Institute is a respected body, it's non-partisan, it's a non-profit, it's based in the US and it has studied this war in minute forensic detail since the full-scale invasion four and a half years ago. So its reports and its analysis are respected.

Now, when it makes a policy recommendational suggestion like this, it is just another voice in the debate that is taking place. But it is a debate that is definitely happening here in Kyiv and other European capitals. And the argument is essentially like this, that Russia is targeting increasingly Ukraine's borders, particularly with Poland, and there is an argument for NATO to change its rules, to relax its rules, so that NATO forces can operate in some kind of buffer zone just inside Ukrainian territory to bring down Russian drones before they come close to NATO borders. Now, that is something that is supported by the Institute, it is supported by some Polish politicians. But the counter argument put by other members is that there is a risk, and that is a risk of escalation, there is a risk of NATO on Russia direct confrontation.

Charlotte Gallagher (4:34)

And not all NATO members would agree on this.

James Landale (4:38)

Well, look, there is a broader argument here, which is that Russia is testing NATO at the moment, it is probing NATO, not just on the border, you know, in this conflict in Ukraine and the border with Poland, but also in other areas with its hybrid activities, its gray zone activities as they are known. We are talking threatening undersea cables, we are talking cyber attacks, we are talking unexpected explosions in distribution warehouses, targeting of individuals, assassination attempts, all of that.