National politics, 1776 edition

**Brigitte Bergen** (0:05)
This is Brian Lehrer's Daily Politics Podcast from WNYC Studios. It's Wednesday, July 1st.
I'm Brigitte Bergen, sitting in for Brian today. As we continue to recognize the 250th anniversary of the adoption of the Declaration of Independence, we'll turn our attention to New York's role in the American Revolution. While it may be overshadowed by Boston, Philadelphia and Virginia in the popular imagination, New York was occupied by the British for most of the war. It was also the site of the largest battle of the Revolution, and it was home to a staggering mix of loyalists, patriots, enslaved people, indigenous nations, and recent immigrants all trying to figure out which way the war was going to break. What about the role of New York during the Revolution? We'll talk to two historians now about a new book that asks different versions of that question. The book is called Fire & Freedom, the American Revolution in New York. My guests are Thomas Wermuth, who edited the book and wrote its introduction. He's co-founder and director of the Hudson River Valley Institute and chair of the Hudson River Valley History at Marist University, and Iris De Rode, a Dutch historian who specializes in the American Revolution and the French-American Alliance. She contributed a chapter to the book about that French-American Alliance.
I want to welcome you both to the show.

**Thomas Wermuth** (1:35)
Well, Bridget, thank you very much for having us.

**Iris De Rode** (1:38)
Thank you very much.

**Brigitte Bergen** (1:39)
Professor Wermuth, what made you want to put this particular collection together right now?

**Thomas Wermuth** (1:46)
Well, Bridget, partly it has to do with, of course, it's the 250th anniversary of the American Revolution, the Declaration of Independence, the semi-quincentennial. However, really, it had a lot to do with the reasons you just gave right up front in terms of the importance of New York to the Revolution and the revolutionary process. A couple of years ago, I'm on the editorial board of New York History, the Journal. But I met with the co-editors, Jennifer Lamacq, Devin Lander, and we were talking about, we knew the 250th was coming. We knew there were going to be public reenactments and various like July 4th, birthday parties and things, but we wanted to make sure that there was a scholarly contribution as well. So people down the road years from now could look back and see what the Revolution was about as it was understood in 2026 So that's when we started the process. We knew it was going to take a little bit of time. Again, that was about three years ago. We sent out a call for papers on New York and the Revolution.
We probably got about 40 to 50 from historians of New York and the Revolution. That got winnowed down over time and finally about 20 finished papers came in and we had a group of 30 historians in New York, review them. We had limited space and so we had to go with the seven bests. That's what we have here. But there were many others that we left on the table, but I'm sorry.
In some though, the other thing we wanted to do was not only to make sure that there was a book available and by the way, it took three years. It's only been out for about two and a half, three weeks for the book to be produced.
We wanted to make sure for the kind of the what you alluded to in your introduction, that New York got its appropriate recognition and attention for its role in the American Revolution. We know that it began in New England, right? We know about the shot heard around the world and the Tea Party and Paul Revere's Ride and so forth. And all of that's very true. We know it ended in Virginia or at least the big battles did, and Dr. De Rode is an expert in that at Yorktown. But in between from 1776 to about 1779, 1780, the New York was the major battlefield. New York City, the Hudson Valley, these were the things that the British wanted, and that's what George Washington wanted to protect. So that was the other thing we wanted to make sure came across in these essays.

**Brigitte Bergen** (4:13)
So, Dr. Wermuth, take us sort of into how you set the context for this book. Before it was New York, it was New Amsterdam, and before that it was the home to the Lenape and other indigenous nations. How far back do the essays go to set the stage for the revolution?

**Thomas Wermuth** (4:31)
They start about the mid-18th century, so a decade or so before what we would understand to be the revolution, the political and military revolution.