Mark Kelly Could Be the Democrats’ 2028 Wild Card (...or Not.)

**Michael Smerconish** (0:00)
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**Michael Smerconish** (0:34)
Welcome to The Smerconish Podcast for Independent Minds.

**Michael Smerconish** (0:38)
Hey gang, Mark Leibovich is a staff writer at The Atlantic. He's the author of, count them, five books, including three New York Times bestsellers, two number one Times bestsellers, This Town, which came out in 2013, and Thank You for Your Servitude, which was published in 2022
He's a recipient of a National Magazine Award for profile writing and has just written a terrific profile titled The Wingman. Who's the focus of The Wingman? That would be one, Senator Mark Kelly. Mark Kelly's resume and the goodwill he's accrued as Gabby Giffords' spouse have granted him a high level of admiration, writes our guest. Can it translate to excitement for a presidential campaign? Mark, thank you so much for being here. You know that I'm a fan of your work and I appreciate your appearances.

**Mark Leibovich** (1:26)
Thanks Michael. It's always good to be with you anytime.

**Michael Smerconish** (1:29)
Something has never made sense to me. Why didn't Kamala Harris select him? Either something came up in the vetting or he didn't want it. It could only be one of two things. What's your answer?

**Mark Leibovich** (1:41)
Well, he certainly wanted it. He wanted it to such a degree that when we talked about, you know, for this article when we talked about what it was like to go through this vetting, he seemed quite still a little bit, I wouldn't say angry, but a little bit miffed that he wasn't picked. I think in retrospect, Kamala Harris probably wouldn't mind having that decision back given that Tim Walz created a fair amount of headaches for her, just given some of his stumbles on the stump. Mark Kelly, I mean, as the title suggests, is a perfect wingman. I mean, he has a great military background. He fought many combat missions in Iraq.
He is a great sort of foxhole guy, a guy you sort of want with you on a squadron. And, you know, the context in which I wrote about him primarily was the wingman for his wife, Gabby Giffords, who's a former congresswoman who was shot tragically in a near assassination in 2011 So, I don't know, I think she probably wouldn't mind having that decision back. He probably wouldn't mind having the job, but that's not how it all played out.

**Michael Smerconish** (2:45)
I mean, if there are demands relative to the relationship with Gabby Giffords, of course, she would all understand, but he's central casting perfect. Here's what you wrote. In her campaign memoir, 107 Days, Harris lists a few concerns that she had about Kelly.
One was that he had never experienced an oh shit moment in his political career. Not sure I understand that. This is quite a remarkable statement. Harris added that she couldn't afford to test Mark Kelly in that ugly grinder of a national campaign. I'll pause, there's another paragraph I want to read. But your thoughts on that?

**Mark Leibovich** (3:23)
Yeah. I mean, first of all, it's somewhat of a preposterous statement by Kamala Harris, and that he's never been tested publicly in this environment.

**Michael Smerconish** (3:30)
He's an astronaut. He's a combat veteran.

**Mark Leibovich** (3:32)
Yeah, he's an astronaut, absolutely. But even more so, I mean, he was sort of the primary player in one of the most tragic political violence acts in American history, when his wife was shot in Tucson in 2011
And he, I mean, that's a terrible test. It's something that no one would wish on anybody. And by all accounts, I mean, he stood by her. He was a real rock for her. He's a real advocate for her long and really agonizing recovery. And really seemed to establish himself as a really admirable figure, an exemplary figure, in addition to his military background, his astronaut background and so forth. So, you know, I was a little bit taken aback by that statement by Kamala Harris. The other thing is just that he wasn't tested on a national stage. Kelly himself took a great deal of umbrage at that statement, given that, as he said, he was elected twice in a very, very sort of tough environment in the purple state in Arizona.