How an Alleged Real Estate Scammer Operated

**Brian Lehrer** (0:10)
Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Well, I don't have to tell you that finding an affordable apartment to rent in New York City is harder than ever.
And the rental market can be opaque, right? Like, where do you find out what's available? How many hoops do you have to jump through to get the apartment? And how do you beat out everyone else looking for the same kind of thing? Well, WNYC and Gothamist reporter Catalina Gonella has some reporting that might make you take a hard look at an offer that seems too good to be true, and maybe avoid some pain. The report is titled, How an Alleged New York City Real Estate Scammer Stayed in Business Despite Years of Complaints. Maybe you heard the radio version on Morning Edition or All Things Considered. And she joins us now to talk about this one, quote, real estate advisor, why rental scams in general are hard to put a stop to, and what to do if you think you've fallen for one. Hey, Catalina.

**Catalina Gonella** (1:05)
Hi, Brian.

**Brian Lehrer** (1:07)
Tell us about the alleged scams, and I stress alleged, but what was the story you heard from people who claimed to be victims?

**Catalina Gonella** (1:15)
Sure, so I spoke to well over a dozen people who told me very similar stories. Of course, the details were a little bit different in each case, but usually they say that they were looking for apartments and in one case, a commercial space, and they typically were in financially tight situations when they came across one of David Michael's listings, usually on Craigslist, and they say that he showed them the spaces in person and asked them for deposits to take the apartments off of the market while they applied. They say that he told them that the deposits were refundable if the deals fell through. But when they eventually didn't get the apartments for a variety of reasons, all but one say that he didn't refund them.

**Brian Lehrer** (2:12)
Listeners, I want to broaden this from the individual allegations against this individual advisor, as he calls himself, to the general topic. Have you had similar experiences to what Catalina was just describing in the allegation in trying to find an apartment to rent? Or even if it worked out, did you feel like the process was shady in some way along the way? Any advice for avoiding scams in the rental market? Call or text us at 212-433-WNYC. This can help other people as they enter the rental market as people do every day, 212-433-9692.
You can call or you can text. To be clear, this man whose name you mentioned, David Michael, calls himself a real estate advisor, not a broker. What's the difference?

**Catalina Gonella** (3:07)
Sure. I can tell you what I know, which is one of the first things I did when I got a tip about this was reach out to the Department of State to ask them if they had complaints about this person. They told me that his license, that he was briefly licensed, but his license was revoked over a decade ago.
After they had received 15 complaints. That's what we know about his status as in the real estate.

**Brian Lehrer** (3:44)
Did you hear from anyone who actually got the advertised apartment through this advisor?

**Catalina Gonella** (3:49)
So one person I spoke to day and night was connected to her through one of my sources who didn't get an apartment. She had actually gone as far as signing a lease for an apartment. And then she says that when she asked David Michael for the keys, he started to sort of evade her. And I've seen the texts that show that. And so she decided to go knock on what she thought was going to be her future apartment's door. And she says that a woman opened the door and told her that she had also just signed a lease for that apartment with David Michael. So I actually spoke to that person and she confirmed that she had gotten that apartment through him.

**Brian Lehrer** (4:34)
And again, to be super clear, the headline in your story is about an alleged scammer. And I guess that's because although he has lost cases in small claims court, he's never been arrested or prosecuted.

**Catalina Gonella** (4:47)
That's well, as far as I know, I reached out to all of the local district attorneys in each borough and also the New York State Attorney General and they didn't have any case about him that they could confirm. The state attorney general did say that they had four complaints about him and that they were looking into them.