DoorDash, AI and More

Brian Lehrer (0:10)

Brian Lehrer on WNYC.

Now we will turn to what the city is calling the largest worker settlement in New York City history. Last month, DoorDash agreed to pay $131 million after a city investigation found the company underpaid more than 260,000 delivery workers, paid some of them late, didn't pay others at all. DoorDash's own statement put it this way, simply put, we screwed up. The commissioner behind that case was also at City Hall on Monday this week, where he testified at a rare hearing of the full city council on the risks of artificial intelligence. So joining us now to discuss the settlement, his testimony and other issues he or his department are involved in, including AI regulation, surveillance pricing is another one, you know, charging you different prices on things than your next door neighbor. More and more is Sam Levine, commissioner of the New York City Department of Consumer and Worker Protection. We'll note he's no newbie at this. He led the Federal Trade Commission under President Biden. Commissioner, welcome back to WNYC.

Sam Levine (1:16)

It's great to be back, Brian.

Brian Lehrer (1:18)

Just to remind everybody, what did DoorDash do wrong?

Sam Levine (1:21)

DoorDash underpaid tens of thousands of its delivery workers by more than $100 million.

As you said at the top, we just announced the largest recovery for workers in New York City enforcement history. 260,000 DoorDash workers who have been underpaid are going to be getting money back thanks to this enforcement action.

Brian Lehrer (1:43)

Even that number can blow your mind. There are 260,000 DoorDash delivery workers in New York City?

Sam Levine (1:51)

It's really incredible, and this is over a number of years, but DoorDash has a whole army of people who are braving the heat, braving the cold to get deliveries to New Yorkers' doors. But DoorDash has an obligation to pay them what they are owed. I think a lot of companies believe they can skirt the law, use algorithms to conceal underpayment. I think what our enforcement action showed last week is we can take on the biggest companies, sift through a lot of the defense tactics they use to conceal wrongdoing and put money back in New Yorkers' pockets.

Brian Lehrer (2:24)

DoorDash apologized, you heard the quote. But on the biggest piece of this settlement, as I understand it, how to count the time workers spend logged in and waiting for an order. The company says its approach was fair, practical and legal and that it settled to avoid years of fighting, which doesn't sound like an apology.

So is this wage theft or a disagreement over a settlement formula? How do you view that?

Sam Levine (2:52)

They underpaid their workers.

Regardless of what their intent was, and I'm not going to speculate, I've been really clear that if you underpay your workers, I don't care how good your intentions were, you need to pay them back and you need to pay them damages on top of that. So we're talking many years of underpayment. You described some of the violations, not all of them. Some workers never got paid at all. I'm happy DoorDash agreed to settle so that we can get money back in workers' pockets. But if they had not settled, we were fully prepared to take them to court. We would have had that fight, and I'm confident we would have won that fight.

Brian Lehrer (3:28)

So listeners, delivery workers, if some of the 260,000 of you are out there, or other delivery workers, you are invited. Have you worked for DoorDash in recent years? Were you ever paid late or not paid at all? Has an app ever deactivated your account, and did you find out why?

212-433-WNYC, caller text 212-433-9692.

We'll also be talking about artificial intelligence with Commissioner Sam Levine. Have you been stuck going in circles with a customer circle check bot, and can't get a human anymore in that company? Also surveillance pricing, which I think we'll hear Levine wants banned. Have you and a friend seen two different prices on the same app? 212-433-WNYC. We'll take your questions for our guest. Your stories too. Sam Levine, Commissioner of the New York City Department of Consumer and Worker Protection. Renamed under Mayor Mamdani, by the way, right? Used to just be the Department of Consumer Affairs. Now it's the Department of Consumer and Worker Protection. 212-433-WNYC. 433-9692. Before we move on from DoorDash, is this just a DoorDash screw up, to use their language, we screwed up, that they're apologizing for and making good on to some degree? Or is there something more structural here?

Sam Levine (4:58)

I think there's something structural across this industry, where companies have really set up business models, and you see this not only in food delivery, you see it in last mile package delivery, where they're engaging in millions of deliveries in New York City, but they don't want to actually employ their delivery workers. They don't want to be responsible when delivery workers get hurt. They don't want to be responsible when delivery workers have issues on the job. So they have this so-called independent contractor model. What we see in this space, in addition to making it harder for workers to organize, it's easier to underpay workers. Because again, workers can't really compare notes. I think what this case showed is that by having our department partner with groups like Worker Justice Project, we were able to help workers compare notes on what happened to them, investigate the company systematically, and get money back in people's pockets. But I think you're absolutely right. There are structural problems in this market that contributed to this underpayment, and those are structural problems we're working to address going forward.