Data Center Opposition in Wisconsin, and Beyond

**Kousha Navadar** (0:10)
It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. I'm Kousha Navadar filling in for Brian today. Happy Monday.
Coming up on today's show, an internal dispute over rules and reform is dividing the Brooklyn Democratic Party. We'll talk about why this kind of thing is more than just inside baseball and how it can affect regular voters and party members. Plus, the head of the Knight First Amendment Institute at Columbia University, Jamil Jaffer, will be here for a conversation on the way that 9-11 and the wars that followed in Iraq and Afghanistan still affects press freedom and speech. And we'll wrap today's show by hearing from a Queens-based community news outlet on how the local Nepalese community is coping with the terrible news that keeps coming on the floods in Nepal along the border with Tibet.
But first, data centers and their impact on elections in November. A recent Gallup poll found that 7 out of 10 Americans oppose a data center being built in their area. And I think that's notable considering that politically it can be hard to find something 7 out of 10 of us agree about anything. And that's blurring political lines. Listen to this clip from CNN of a Republican voter talking about his frustration with data centers in his area.

**SPEAKER_2** (1:29)
They're not good neighbors. They're damaging people. The Republican Party in this state doesn't care. I have been a staunch Republican my entire life. I've done.
Anyone that was in office during this mess that hasn't supported us, it's not going to get my vote. And it's really changed my thinking.

**Kousha Navadar** (1:56)
That was a Republican voter discussing his thinking on who to vote for in November. In fact, around the country, data centers and what to do about them have started to blur the lines between political parties. Many voters seem to be willing to hop the line. Many candidates are flip-flopping and progressive and conservative leaders are finding themselves working together.
Data centers are an especially hot topic in Wisconsin's race for governor. And here to talk us through the landscape of that race and how data centers are reshaping the election status quo is Dan Kaufman, journalist and author of the recent piece in The New Yorker titled, Could Data Centers Swing an Election in Wisconsin? He's also the author of the book The Fall of Wisconsin, The Conservative Conquest of a Progressive Bastion and the Future of American Politics. Dan, welcome back to WNYC.

**Dan Kaufman** (2:47)
Hi, Kusha. Thank you so much for having me.

**Kousha Navadar** (2:49)
Of course. And Dan, before we fully get into the data center issue in Wisconsin, this show, The Brian Lehrer Show, famously based in New York City, can you tell the tri-state listeners why Wisconsin politics are important for us to be talking about?

**Dan Kaufman** (3:03)
Sure, sure. Well, Wisconsin has been really the epicenter of national politics in a couple of ways for at least the last decade.
Famously, it was one of a few swing states to put Trump, to put him over the top in the electoral college in 2016
And also in 2024, it also swung back to President Biden. And there's a lot of, the state has a really fascinating political history that at one time it was quite a progressive epicenter, and it forged a lot of the policies that informed the New Deal and so on. And so it's had an outsized influence on national politics for generations. But in the last decade or so, it's been a real bellwether, probably the most pivotal swing state in the country. It's the only state that's really been on a small list of states that have determined the outcomes over the past three elections. So it's very important. And the governor's race obviously will, the person who is leading the state will have a major impact. And one of the Republican candidate is a congressman named Tom Tiffany, and he was a very vigorous supporter of the stolen election conspiracies. So that's obviously going to be very important. Yeah.

**Kousha Navadar** (4:24)
So what I hear you saying is that Wisconsin, bellwether, big term that I heard you just mentioned there, it's got outsized influence on the national stage and really an indication of what's to come is all the reason why this kind of is important for New Yorkers and the tri-state area to pay attention to. And also, not for nothing, but the first clip that we just heard wasn't from a voter in Wisconsin, it was from a voter in Texas about his frustrations with data centers in his area. And that kind of indicates the national presence this has.
You spend a lot of time on the ground in Wisconsin. Do folks there sound like that guy we just heard from minus maybe the Texan accent when it comes to the frustration of data centers?