Condoleezza Rice on Beating China in the Tech Race: 'Run Hard and Run Fast'

SPEAKER_1 (0:00)

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Alex Ossola (0:16)

Hey, What's News listeners. It's Sunday, November 23rd. I'm Alex Osala for The Wall Street Journal. This is What's News Sunday. On the show this week, we're bringing you an episode of our sister podcast, Bold Names, hosted by WSJ columnist Christopher Mims and Tim Higgins. This episode features former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. I'm joined now by one of the hosts of Bold Names, Christopher Mims.

Christopher Condoleezza Rice. I think most people know her as the Secretary of State under George W. Bush. Now, she leads the Hoover Institution at Stanford University and is a founding partner of strategic consulting firm Rice, Hadley, Gates, and Manuel. What makes her well positioned to speak to this geopolitical moment that we're in?

Christopher Mims (1:01)

She talks to a wide variety of CEOs about what they're dealing with. And, of course, because companies are more multinational than ever and they're having to deal with things that affect their operations all over the globe, like tariffs, she's really become that kind of CEO whisperer, but also a CEO listener.

Alex Ossola (1:23)

Was there anything that she said during your conversation with her that surprised you?

Christopher Mims (1:28)

Yes. So, we're always talking about this new Cold War between the US and China. She doesn't like that comparison. And it's hard to think of somebody who's more qualified to disagree on that count than Condoleezza Rice.

Alex Ossola (1:45)

Thanks, Christopher. Now, let's hear what Rice had to say in your interview for Bold Names.

Tim Higgins (1:50)

We're at this critical inflection point, it seems. A dangerous era, potentially, for geopolitics. The US, China, racing for AI. What is your nightmare scenario here?

Condoleezza Rice (2:04)

Yeah. Well, AGI, it's, you know, the general intelligence, so that the model is able to think on its own, is maybe it's going to happen, maybe it isn't going to happen. Well, if it's going to happen, I sure want it to happen in the United States, not in China. I don't want to wake up one day and find out that they have a general intelligence robot.

Tim Higgins (2:25)

I'm a friend of Sarah Connor.

Alex Ossola (2:26)

I was told that she's here. Could I see her, please?

Christopher Mims (2:29)

You don't want the Terminator, but Chinese.

Condoleezza Rice (2:32)

Exactly. I'd rather if there's going to be a Terminator, let him be American.

SPEAKER_6 (2:35)

I'll be back.

Tim Higgins (2:43)

Today on Bold Names, Condoleezza Rice, the former US Secretary of State and current head of the Hoover Institution at Stanford University. A big name in foreign affairs, she also has a strategic consulting firm that she founded with some other big names in that world.

Christopher Mims (3:00)

Yeah, she is helping companies navigate what is our dangerous current world. And one of her big sort of hobby horses now is making sure that the future is not filled with terminators and especially that we don't end up in a situation where China is building terminators and nobody else is. I don't know about you, Tim. I think about all of these things a lot. I have kids. I really do not want one of them to have to become John Connor and save us from that future.

Tim Higgins (3:29)

Yeah, absolutely. I want to avoid that. Terminator 1, Terminator 2, definitely not the future I want. Maybe Terminator 3 I could kind of live with. Maybe.

Christopher Mims (3:37)

But in the meantime, let's get to this interview with Condoleezza Rice. From The Wall Street Journal, I'm Christopher Mims.

Tim Higgins (3:45)

And I'm Tim Higgins. This is Bold Names, where you'll hear from the leaders of the bold name companies featured in the pages of The Wall Street Journal. Today we ask, how are companies navigating international uncertainty and geopolitical tensions without falling behind?

Welcome, thanks for making time today.

Condoleezza Rice (4:11)

Thanks, it's a pleasure to be with you.

Tim Higgins (4:13)

We wanna talk a lot about business and the international world today, but first, maybe let's set the scene what's going on out there. It's a challenging international environment. Business leaders, for a long time, I think, probably took for granted the idea that there was going to be some stability in the global order. And now, maybe not so, makes it challenging for making those business investments. What do you see out there? Is it more competitive than ever? Is it a new era of competition?

Condoleezza Rice (4:45)

Well, certainly, I think it is a more uncertain international environment. The way that I put it is we've become quite accustomed in the business community to, thanks to the kind of integration of the international economy. You could put your supply chains where it was most efficient. You could invest where the ROI was greatest.