Brian Lehrer Weekend: Divisions Within the DSA; Luigi Mangione Pleads Guilty; The Elizabeth Street Garden

**Brian Lehrer** (0:10)
It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning again, everyone. Earlier this month, we launched an occasional series that we're calling America 251, Dialogue, Not Die a Tribe. America 251 because after the polarized bitterness of the country's 250th birthday year, let's actually listen to each other in year 251
Dialogue, Not Die a Tribe as a perennial value of this show and of public radio generally as we will continue to try to be a place where people who disagree with each other in good faith do actually listen to each other and interact in a constructive way. And as it turns out, the divisions in this country are not just Democrat versus Republican, or right versus left, or even insider versus outsider, or rich versus not rich. Today, tomorrow, and Wednesday, we'll explore, we hope in a smart way, some current divisions within the conservative movement, within the Democratic Party, and within DSA, the Democratic Socialists of America, and that's where we'll start.
Even as DSA politicians like Zeran Mamdani, Millet-Kiros, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and others, rise in prominence and influence, the DSA is engaged in determining exactly what it wants to be, as it tries to actually win elections, and then to actually govern, rather than just be a kind of left-wing think tank or activist group. For example, Axios had an article a couple of weeks ago called The DSA has had unprecedented success. It also has serious internal divisions. The New York Times this month had a story about the DSA National Summit in Chicago, where members, quote, debated whether socialist candidates should be free to distance themselves from goals like abolishing prisons as they chase more seats this fall, unquote, from the Times. And maybe you've heard this 45-second clip of DSA National co-chair, Megan Romer, being widely shared on social media now after her appearance on Fox.

**Shannon Bream** (2:10)
So we're going to put up on the screen a few of the things that are part of your platform. And I want to ask you, just give me sort of a true or on these. Abolish the Senate.

**Brian Lehrer** (2:19)
True.

**Shannon Bream** (2:20)
Okay, replace the presidency and Supreme Court as we now know them. Yep. Abolish ICE. Absolutely. Abolish borders and give amnesty to anyone currently in the US illegally.
As a long-term plan, yep. Defund the Pentagon.
Absolutely. Abolish prisons, at least in large part.

**Megan Romer** (2:46)
Yeah, again, that is part of a long-term program, yeah.

**Shannon Bream** (2:49)
Okay, so no prisons. Government or public ownership of most large corporations?

**Megan Romer** (2:55)
Yeah, absolutely.

**Brian Lehrer** (2:58)
Megan Romer, DSA national co-chair with Fox's Shannon Bream. Certainly you haven't heard words like most of those from Mom Donnie or Ocasio-Cortez, for example. In fact, and many people don't know this, the national DSA withdrew its endorsement of AOC two years ago. We'll explain why. So let's explore the dialogue taking place within the DSA right now, with Eric Blank, Assistant Professor of Labor Studies at Rutgers, author of several books including We Are the Union, How Worker to Worker Organizing is Revitalizing Labor and Winning Big, published last year, and his 2019 book Red State Revolt, The Teachers Strike Wave and Working Class Politics.
He writes the sub-stack newsletter, Labor Politics, and is a member of the DSA's Bread and Roses Caucus, which caucus of the DSA he is in will be relevant during our conversation. Eric, always good to have you on with us. Welcome back to WNYC.

**Eric Blank** (3:54)
Yeah. Thanks so much for having me on. As a disclaimer, I should say that this is me not speaking in name of Bread and Roses, but in individual capacity.

**Brian Lehrer** (4:02)
Fair enough. DSA listeners, you're invited to be an integral part of this segment. How close is your agenda to what Megan Romer laid out in the clip? 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692.
Call or text if you consider yourself a Democratic Socialist. What if any litmus tests do you think should apply to a candidate for office? If they want to call themselves DSA members, are you enthusiastic about AOC for president or maybe less so? Like reportedly, according to the New York Times at least, many of the people at that recent DSA summit in Chicago, 212-433-WNYC or anything else relevant you want to say or ask or have a dialogue about with Eric Blank, 212-433-9692.
Call or text. Again, this is for those of you who consider yourselves Democratic Socialists. You don't have to be formal DSA members, but you have to at least think of yourself as a Democratic Socialist. Tomorrow, we'll do something similar for those of you from any wing of the Democratic Party and on Wednesday, for those of you who consider yourselves conservatives, some of the conversations within that movement. But for today, Democratic Socialists with Eric Blank from Rutgers, and from Rutgers and The Nation, and sometimes writing for Jacobin, and from the Bread and Roses Caucus of DSA. Eric will try to get to the viral Megan Romer clip in just a minute and its implications. But, and I know you gave us that disclaimer, can we establish first where you are within the party? I see you are a member of the Bread and Roses Caucus, you acknowledge that. Would you describe what that is and its role in DSA as you see it? Sure.