Black and Latino Leaders React to DSA Wins

**Brian Lehrer** (0:11)
It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning again, everyone. New York Times political reporter Jeff Mays is joining us on his two latest articles about how some longtime black and Latino leaders are dealing with the rise of DSA candidates in their gentrifying neighborhoods, and how Mayor Mamdani is trying to blend economic development with economic justice. Jeff, always good to have you. Welcome back to WNYC.
And do we have you, Jeff? You there?

**Jeffrey Mays** (0:42)
I'm here. Can you hear me?

**Brian Lehrer** (0:43)
Hold on. Now I can hear you. Thanks.
Okay. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. So you quote some prominent and well-respected black and Latino leaders with very progressive histories, we should say. Like Esmeralda Simmons, black woman attorney, Bed-Stuy-based, who was a leader and passed lawsuits to create minority voting districts in New York. And as you remind us, helped found the Center for Law and Social Justice at Medgar Evers College. She's been on the show in that context. What's her concern as it represents the group of leaders you wrote about for this?

**Jeffrey Mays** (1:15)
Well, this reminded her the sort of victories that the DSA has been having and mostly gentrifying neighborhoods. It sort of reminded her of the days in New York City where minority voters could not, the districts were drawn in such a way that minority voters could not elect certain individuals that maybe had support in those communities. And so she was part of that effort filing lawsuits to change that and along with other folks like Al Van in Brooklyn. And that area became really a base of Black political power in the city. And so she just sort of watched as over the past few years, Democratic Socialists have one seat in places like Bed-Stuy.
Right now, they are represented in the Senate by a Socialist and also represented in the Assembly by a Socialist as well. And I think the concern from people like Ms. Simmons is that there's a loss, there might be a loss of what she called self-governance, which is people's ability to sort of pick the representatives that they want.

**Brian Lehrer** (2:25)
Right. You quote Simmons as concerned that the DSA seemed to be papering over, quote, the opinions and the self-governance of the citizens in the area that they are sweeping over, unquote. You also have Tiffany Burt, maybe even a more, at least emotional response to some of these DSA victories. Tiffany Burt, a millennial who moved to Bed-Stuy from Ohio in 2018, head of the Vanguard Independent Democratic Association, one of Brooklyn's most influential political clubs, and a center of black political power for decades. You're right. She said she was devastated and moved to tears by DSA's victories. Explain that, Jeff, because the DSA candidates who won their congressional primaries, at least, are both Latinas, and they would say they want more activism than the older guard leadership was providing, not less, for marginalized communities of color. What's the skepticism? What were the tears for, given that?

**Jeffrey Mays** (3:23)
Yeah, I think you're right. As I pointed out in the article, many of the candidates that DSA supports are Black and Latino. A lot of their victories were from Black and Latino candidates in these recent primaries. But someone like Tiffany is an interesting case.
She's a millennial.
She moved to the city from Ohio, I believe, and lived in Harlem at first, and then eventually moved to Bed-Stuy. She might actually be the type of person that DSA would look to recruit into their groups. But her larger concern, she said, is that it feels like to her that the DSA just does not consult with long-time residents of the neighborhood about what their priorities are. So I think running underneath this is just a fear that people will not be able to get the issues, even the bread and butter issues that they're concerned about to be addressed because they don't necessarily know these folks from the DSA and they don't feel comfortable with them from the DSA. A lot of people raise concerns to me about the makeup of the group and how many white people they have in the group as well. So all of those concerns are blending together. Combining with what we're seeing in a lot of these neighborhoods is people leaving 200,000 black residents left the city from 2000 to now. And what we see is changing in these neighborhoods of who can get elected, which candidates are popular and what issues are of concern to the residents.

**Brian Lehrer** (5:05)
Though I imagine DSA would say the reason so many black New Yorkers in particular are leaving New York City is because of affordability concerns, which they would say what they're centering. Also, you write...