Are Carriage Horses a Thing of the Past?

**David Furst** (0:10)
It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm David Furst filling in for Brian today. And now we focus on New York's horse carriage industry and what its future may be.
Last week, an 18-year-old tourist, Ramanj Mahajan died after falling out of a horse carriage during a ride in Central Park with his family.
New York's iconic horse carriages have been the subject of debate for years. Multiple mayors have confronted the issue. One of Bill de Blasio's campaign promises was to ban them. Eric Adams called for an end to their use this past fall, and Mayor Mamdani straddled both sides of the issue during his campaign. But despite years of promises, the carriages still remain in use. That may be changing. Last week's incident has renewed calls to ban the horse carriages in Central Park, and now City Council Speaker Julie Menon has announced that there will be a hearing in July on legislation to carry out the ban following Mahajan's death. Gothamist reporter Liam Quigley has more on the history of the debate and what could happen next. Liam, welcome back.

**Liam Quigley** (1:16)
Hello, how are you?

**David Furst** (1:18)
So let's go over some of these basic details. Can you tell us what happened in Central Park last Wednesday?

**Liam Quigley** (1:26)
Yeah, this was a violent crash, basically. It was reported that the driver had stepped away to take a photo of the family who was in town visiting, to step off the carriage, and then the horse bolted. And it was a violent crash. And this young man was trying to save his mom and was killed in the crash. I was among the first reporters on the scene in the aftermath. And you can see it was very violent. The carriage was shattered over part of the drive.
The horse was uninjured. But this is the first, to the industry's knowledge, as far as we can find, the first death of a passenger in the park riding on one of these horse carriages. The NYPD is still investigating that crash. But like you said, it's led to this big renewed push to ban the industry, which kind of it comes up once every three to four to five, six months.
There's another incident. But this is the first where a passenger has been killed in a crash as far as we can tell.

**David Furst** (2:32)
That stepping away to take a picture, is that something that is not on the list of things you're allowed to do?

**Liam Quigley** (2:38)
The Transit Workers Union said the rides were suspended for two days following the crash to get all the drivers retrained. They said that shouldn't have happened. So the rides were paused.
But no, that's not something that horse carriage driver is supposed to do when you have passengers sitting on the carriage.

**David Furst** (3:00)
Listeners, if you'd like to join this discussion, we welcome you to call in on this as well. 212-433-9692. What do you think? Are horse carriages inhumane and dangerous? Should they be banned or should the industry not be defined by a few recent incidents? Do you think there could be a compromise moving forward? Plus, if you work with horses or if perhaps you are a carriage driver yourself, we would love to hear your thoughts. So let us know 212-433-WNYC.
That's 212-433-9692. You can call or text. So Liam, this conflict has been ongoing for years as we detailed. Multiple mayors have taken this on. Could you give us a little more history on this topic and explain why attempts to ban the carriages have been unsuccessful so far?

**Liam Quigley** (3:58)
Bloomberg regulated. de Blasio promised to get rid of them. That was like he put a huge stake in the ground there and he failed to do it.
And that was a, you know, it's a big point of criticism for him among those who obviously want the industry banned. Eric Adams eventually came out against the industry. He was unsuccessful in shutting it down. And Mamdani has said he said he wants to see it shut down, though he does want to work with this, you know, the TWU, the Transport Workers Union, who are very influential and are defending this union and the union jobs that it represents. So it's been a battle for a long time and it's been through multiple mayors.

**David Furst** (4:40)
Well, what about that proposal from Mayor Adams? It would help transition drivers into new jobs.

**Liam Quigley** (4:46)
There's council legislation that used to be called Rider's Law. It was named after a horse who collapsed and died in the street. It's now Romance's Law for the 18-year-old who was killed.