30 Issues in 30 Days: NYS Taxes

Brian Lehrer (0:10)

It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. We are in our 30 issues and 30 days election series. Let other media focus only on the polls and personalities. We are choosing an issue a day for 30 straight shows to help you be as informed, a voter as it can be in our local swing congressional districts and the New York state governor's race. Today, it's lucky issue number 13, taxes as an issue in the Kathy Hochul-Bruce Blakeman governor's race.

Kathy Hochul (0:40)

There's not been a tax increase on income tax or corporate taxes since I've been governor. In fact, we've had the largest middle class tax rate cut in 70 years.

Bruce Blakeman (0:49)

I am eliminating the state income tax if you make $100,000 or less.

Brian Lehrer (0:55)

Now, Blakeman is running centrally on taxes as a cost of living affordability issue. Hochul is running differently. We will hear more clips after that montage as we go. We have two guests for this edition of 30 issues with different takes on the question, what's the right level of taxing and spending in the state? Andrew Rein is president of the Citizens Budget Commission, whose recent report from that think tank argues the state is losing its competitive edge with high taxes and spending. And Emily Eisner, Fiscal Policy Institute executive director and chief economist, FPI, issued a report in August titled, States with Progressive Tax Systems are the Most Millionaire Friendly. We'll certainly hear that argument. Welcome back to the station, Andrew Rein and Emily Eisner.

Andrew Rein (1:43)

Well thank you for having me.

Emily Eisner (1:45)

Yeah, thanks so much Bryan.

Brian Lehrer (1:47)

Let's start with a little bit of factual groundwork on New York's tax rates and what New Yorkers get for their taxes. And then we'll get to the candidates and Bruce Blakeman's plan to cut state income taxes.

And Kathy Hochul's plans. Andrew Rein, the latest Citizens Budget Commission report, as I mentioned, finds that, quote, New York state and its localities are the nation's highest taxing, taxing, highest, I can say it right, highest taxing and second highest spending governments, highest taxing and second highest spending. How much higher are the taxes in the state compared to what?

Andrew Rein (2:28)

Yeah, we have been focusing on making sure that New York is attractive to all different types of people that were delivering the value for our taxes. What we found in the study that you cite is that New York state and its localities collect more taxes per person than anyone else in the country. And I think the really making the case is that it's 22% higher than California, which is obviously not a low tax place. We also found that we're second highest in spending. And if per capita we spent like New Jersey, just for example, we'd be saving $99 billion.

Again, the question is, what are we getting for that dollar? If we're gonna have, we're never gonna be low tax or low spending given our needs and desires. But are we getting the value we need for that dollar to make sure that everyone wants to be here and that we all thrive together?

Brian Lehrer (3:18)

Are property taxes included in your math?

Andrew Rein (3:22)

All the taxes are included because it's all, you know, the way to compare it is using all state and local taxes, all different types of taxes. You know, we're number one in personal income taxes, number one in corporate taxes, number three in property taxes. You add all that and that makes us top of the charts.

Brian Lehrer (3:38)

Now, listeners, we can take your calls on this. If you're a tax the rich advocate, call in. If you're the opposite to, if that's you, tell us what you'd cut from the spending side. Or if you think that in the long run, high taxes for state spending are worth it, let us know. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692.

Call or text for this edition of 30 Issues in 30 Days. So Emily Eisner from the Fiscal Policy Institute, you're not arguing that New Yorkers don't pay high taxes, are you?

Emily Eisner (4:12)

No, absolutely not. I think New Yorkers do pay high taxes. I would like to take one step back, Bryan, if that's okay. I think it's important to remember that there's been a decades long campaign against taxation, that the campaign makes us all believe that taxation is a form of punishment. But in New York and across the country, it would be great for people to also understand taxation as an important way to fund our collective well-being, our common lives, and our public services that we all rely on.