Zvi’s POV: Ilya’s SSI, OpenAI’s o1, Claude Computer Use, Trump’s election, and more

**Erik Torenberg** (0:02)
Hey, everyone, Erik here. Ever wondered how the biggest names in tech turn pricing into their secret weapon for explosive growth? Well, I've got a new show for you that pulls back the curtain on the real levers of SaaS pricing. It's called Unpack Pricing, hosted by Scott Woody, who is the co-founder and CEO of Metronome, a usage-based billing platform powering billing for OpenAI, Anthropic, and Databricks. In each episode, Scott sits down with founders, executives, and pricing experts to break down how they use pricing to grow their business and drive revenue growth. You'll hear from founders like Spencer Kimball of Cockroach Labs on the realities of monetizing open-source software, and from product and pricing leaders like Jesse Miller on navigating both product-led and sales-led growth. Whether you're a startup founder, product leader, or trying to acquire an edge in your understanding of tech business models, Unpack Pricing delivers insights you won't find anywhere else. Subscribe to Unpack Pricing, available wherever you get your podcasts. Head to the link in the show notes now.

**Zvi Mowshowitz** (0:59)
Ilya said that this is no longer the age of scaling. Once again, everyone is looking for the next thing. Scaling the right thing matters more now than ever. Basically, the OpenAI attitude of, we'll just add a zero to everything and see what happens is not even what OpenAI is doing anymore. They've moved on to a one because their previous strategy wasn't working. As a result of SB 1047 being vetoed, the bill is not being used as the model for other legislation in other places, even though it is obviously the best model legislation that we have available. Instead, people are considering bills like the one in Texas, which use a use-case-targeting EUAXE-style approach to regulation of AI. That approach has all of the costs you can imagine, and none of the benefits to existential risk. If China wants to knock TSNC out of existence, it can. If I was the US government, I would either deliberately have a goal of US chip independence 2027, or I would be pretty damn committed to defending Taiwan.

**Nathan Labenz** (2:02)
Hello, and welcome back to The Cognitive Revolution. Today, Zvi Mowshowitz returns for another wide-ranging conversation as we look back on the major developments in AI, including the technical, strategic, and political that have transpired in the six months since his last appearance. We discuss Ilya's new startup, which aims to go straight to superintelligence, the utility or lack thereof of OpenAI's O1 model for things like coding and Magic The Gathering, the likely impact of Claude's new computer use capabilities, and the recent discourse around the quote unquote end of scaling. We also analyze the complex web of partnerships emerging between big tech companies, the regulatory outlook in the wake of the veto of SB 1047, and of course the latest OpenAI drama, which this time centers around the question of who should and will get what as they convert to a for-profit company. Toward the end, we consider the potential impact of Donald Trump's return to the presidency on AI futures, and I pick Zvi's brain on how the AI safety community should evolve its understanding of individual virtue in this new political reality. On all these topics and more, Zvi delivers a mix of strategic analysis and insight that you really can't get anywhere else. Except of course for his blog, Don't Worry About the Vase, which is online at thezvi.substack.com.
I personally find these exchanges super helpful, both for maintaining general situational awareness and in some cases for challenging my own mental models about how to most effectively work toward beneficial AI outcomes. As always, if you're finding value in the show, we'd appreciate a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or you could just share it with a friend who's trying to make sense of the rapidly evolving AI landscape. Of course, we welcome your feedback either via our website, cognitiverevolution.ai, or by DMing me on your favorite social network. Now, I hope you enjoy this latest discussion with the great Zvi Mowshowitz. Zvi Mowshowitz, welcome back to The Cognitive Revolution.

**Zvi Mowshowitz** (4:00)
Thanks. I always enjoy it here.

**Nathan Labenz** (4:02)
So it's been a minute, and the pace hasn't slowed down, I wouldn't say, although we can maybe get into the meta discussion and why people seem to be even seeing that question increasingly differently these days. I went back and looked at the timestamp of our last conversation, and it was right after OpenAI and Google had sort of previewed their respective voice modes. And then I think literally as we were recording, there were several resignations from OpenAI safety teams. Then we did an immediate part two to talk about that. And certainly quite a bit has happened in the intervening months. So what I thought we would do is just run it down, get your take on a bunch of stuff. We're both in the business of keeping up with this on a weekly, daily, and hourly basis, but not everybody can do that. So this is the zoomed out few months recap and analysis. How's that sound?