Zichen Wang's Exit Interview From America

SPEAKER_2 (0:02)

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Joe Weisenthal (0:18)

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots Podcast. I'm Joe Weisenthal.

Tracy Alloway (0:22)

And I'm Tracy Alloway.

Joe Weisenthal (0:24)

Tracy, we're recording this June 5th. President Xi Jinping and President Trump just held a phone call.

Tracy Alloway (0:29)

Wouldn't you like to be a fly on the wall for that conversation?

Joe Weisenthal (0:32)

I would. I don't know what that means. Markets moved on it. I'm always surprised how hard it is to set up a phone. Just pick up the phone. But I'm always a little surprised that these are bigger news. It should be noted that this was reported first by the Xinhua news agency out of China, and there was a headline that the news agency specified that the phone call was at Trump's request. They made a point of saying that.

Tracy Alloway (0:55)

I still have this image of Trump sitting in the Oval Office by the phone, just like twiddling his thumbs, waiting for Xi Jinping to call, like hoping, is he going to call me? Should I wait two days? Should I wait three days before responding? That kind of thing.

Joe Weisenthal (1:08)

There was an All-Star Journal article I saw from a few weeks ago, which made the observation, which I had not realized outside of the September 11th terrorist attacks, there's never been a contact between the US and China that was initiated by China, which I hadn't realized before. I assume it's true.

Tracy Alloway (1:24)

So Xi Jinping is sitting in his office, twiddling his thumbs, waiting for Trump.

Joe Weisenthal (1:29)

And then he decides to either take the call. Anyway, all of this sort of speaks to the fact we sort of are confused by all this, and there's still just so much that I think Americans, in particular, but I'm sure it goes in both directions, like genuinely don't understand about the other country. And given a time of increased tension, obviously the trade war, heightened geopolitical concerns, it's not great. I think it would be better, even if we sort of accept the premise of there is this very intense competition, that the two countries and the populations and the government and the people go into government, just know more about how they work.

Tracy Alloway (2:03)

Absolutely. Have you ever read an English translation of the way China academics write and talk about American society and American politics?

Joe Weisenthal (2:13)

I should read this.

Tracy Alloway (2:14)

It's really, really interesting.

Joe Weisenthal (2:16)

You should send me some links.

Tracy Alloway (2:17)

Yeah, OK, I will. But I know a person who has done this and translated it and done the work, and he will definitely send you some links.

Joe Weisenthal (2:24)

So I am very excited to say that we have a and I think it should be a special episode. We've talked to him on the podcast before. We're going to be speaking with Zichen Wang. He is the author, the creator of the Pekingnology substack, which essentially looks at public comments from officials, academics, leaders in China, and then writes about them and translates them for an American audience and actually sort of helps an American audience understand like what this sort of like public discourse is. And anyway, over the last year, he's been getting his master's degree in public policy at the Princeton School of Public and International Affairs. So he's been in Princeton over the last year, but he's going back to China and he's going to return for where he was working at the think tank, the Center for China and Globalization.

Tracy Alloway (3:09)

Right, so this is his exit interview from America basically.

Joe Weisenthal (3:13)

When I heard that he was leaving town, I was like, let's do an exit interview. And of course, the other added context, which I think is very relevant here, is that this comes at a time of extreme scrutiny on the mere existence of Chinese students at American universities, particularly out of the Trump administration. It's an American export, US universities, and there's this major crackdown. We've seen people, all these concerns about visas, et cetera. So, it's a perfect time to do this exit interview. So, Zichen, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Zichen Wang (3:43)

Well, thank you for having me here back again.

Joe Weisenthal (3:45)

You run a great newsletter, and we had a great episode with you. And as a student in the US., you're sort of situated at a very interesting time. But let's say back up, what prompted you to come to the US to study in the first place? I mean, you did this program at Princeton. How come?