Why is it so hard for men to open up? A journalist and an entrepreneur answer | Joshua Johnson and Blake Mycoskie

Elise Hu (0:04)

You're listening to TED Talks Daily, where we bring you new ideas to spark your curiosity every day. I'm your host, Elise Hugh.

We're back with the next episode of our original series, TED Intersections. The show features unscripted conversations between experts navigating the ideas shaping our world. Today, social entrepreneur Blake Mycoskie and radio host Joshua Johnson sit down to talk about something a lot of us are feeling right now. That real face-to-face connection is getting harder to come by, especially for men, many of whom, they note, are lonelier than ever and unsure how to talk to one another.

Blake Mycoskie (0:40)

The easiest thing is to invite someone to coffee and ask them about their life. It's much easier if someone has gone first.

Elise Hu (0:48)

That's Blake. Across the conversation, he and Joshua trade stories that are surprisingly raw about fathers, about friendship and about learning, sometimes the hard way, what the people in our lives really don't need.

Joshua Johnson (1:00)

I think my father was unable to really process being a dad beyond being a provider, but I don't need what you can provide for me. I need you.

Elise Hu (1:12)

They get into how to actually have a deeper conversation, why asking a good question might be the most powerful thing you can do and the small daily ritual that changed how Blake's family talks to one another. That's coming up right after a short break.

And now our TED conversation of the day.

Joshua Johnson (1:36)

Going through life with a willingness to ask more questions than you make statements, liberating. Nothing that happens after the question is your responsibility. Your responsibility is have the curiosity, the integrity, the thoughtfulness, and the humility to ask what's on your mind and not bite your tongue because, well, they might be uncomfortable. Well, what are they going to say? Let that be their problem.

What if we shuffle the deck?

Blake Mycoskie (2:18)

I'm fine with it.

Joshua Johnson (2:19)

All right. Okay, deck duly shuffled?

Blake Mycoskie (2:23)

Okay, you go first now. All right.

So I can own what I've done? Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Joshua Johnson (2:27)

All right, first question. Are we losing the ability to have real conversations?

Blake Mycoskie (2:33)

Hmm, I don't think so, actually. I think that with everything that's going on from a technical perspective, we are, or at least in my fitting group, I'm finding that people are yearning for more and more intimacy, vulnerability, dinner parties.

I'm feeling a pendulum's shift back, because I feel like people have been so digitally focused for so long. And no, I don't feel that way at all.

Joshua Johnson (3:04)

I get that, and I think the pendulum is definitely shifting. I guess when I read this, the editor in me is like, well, what do you mean by real? Yeah, so I think for some folks, just being able to text you when they're freaking out, and just have that little human conversation is real, connectively, because it sort of paves the way for more open conversation. Some people aren't ready to have the eye-to-eye, face-to-face conversation, but they could chat you up all day on WhatsApp.

And that's about as real as they can get. And I don't know, but I suspect some people kind of need to be walked from digital and virtual into real world, into real space, real time, and maybe that's what's a real conversation for them, kind of pulls them towards something else.

Blake Mycoskie (3:59)

Yeah, and I was just thinking, I'm probably more exposed to that, because most of the work I do is in mental health now. And so most of the people I'm talking to is about their mental health, and they're opening up about their mental health journeys. And so I'm kind of predisposed to a lot of very vulnerable, very honest, very raw conversations, probably more than the general population.

Joshua Johnson (4:23)

I imagine that some people start to have those conversations, their capacity for it grows, and maybe their desire for it. Like once you get the benefit of like, oh, that's what that was, then you want more of it. Right, you want more of it, and you find a facility with it. For liability purposes, I'm going to start with a gentle swish and flick.

Blake Mycoskie (4:44)

Okay.

Okay, this is good. So many men feel lonelier than ever, and don't know how to talk to one another. Where do they start?

Joshua Johnson (4:55)

I think that they might have to start inward, because if you're not comfortable saying, hey man, I'm not sure how to like connect other people, that's a level of exposure I'm not sure some guys are ready for if you're already struggling to connect other people. I think for some men, maybe that first conversation needs to be in the mirror. And be like, look, this is what my life is. There's no use kidding myself. Here's where I really am. This is what's happening. This is what my social life is like. This is what my romantic life is like. This is how I see myself. This is what I actually want. And figure out, if I had more connection, what would that mean to me? What would a perfect day in my life look like if I had the connections I wanted? Rather than just, well, you should reach out more. You should be more connected.