What Kohberger Claims Happened In His Attorney Meetings

**SPEAKER_1** (0:00)
This is The Big Breakdown, a long look back at some of the biggest stories we're covering for you at the Hidden Killers Podcast and True Crime Today. This is Hidden Killers Live with Tony Brueski and Robin Drake.

**Tony Brueski** (0:17)
About the Nancy Guthrie case, let's go over to little Bryan Kohberger. He has filed to withdraw the guilty plea. He entered for the murders of Kayleigh Gonzalves, Madison Mogan, Xana Cronodle and Ethan Chapin. The whole filing leans on what was recovered from the victim's hand and almost nothing being reported about it seems very accurate. Retired FBI Special Agent Jennifer Coffindaffer is with myself and retired FBI Special Agent Robin Drake today.
As we break down where this is at, let's start with what the claim is and it's from the Broken Plea Book basically. He's citing what the author cited, it's not from an actual report. The FBI lab took debris from Ethan Chapin's hand. The word they used was debris, not clumps of hair. That was in a book that was written. That's not part of the actual report, so I think that's important to understand, number one. Kohberger doesn't quote the actual police report, he quotes a book and says, see, see, look at that, that must be something here.
They compared it against one person on earth, BryanKohberger, and wrote down that none of it matched him. One of the strands matched Ethan's own hair, the rest we don't really know wasn't matched to anybody. Then the report says the rest was preserved for possible future comparisons. Three years on, nobody has ever publicly established whose it was, and this petition calls it clumps of hair, not language from the filings, from the broken plea book that he thinks proves his innocence. The honest answer is we don't know what it proved because nobody finished the actual work.
What's your take on this, Jen, on the clumps of hair? Is this something that can be very quickly explained and, okay, that's great. Isn't that cute, Bryan? You came to us with this. Here's your answer. Go back to yourself.

**Jennifer Coffindaffer** (2:11)
Well, no, I can't be easily explained because they're going to have to do a lot of work to get the DNA. Secondarily, I mean, he has thrown his biggest advocate and somebody who, I got to admit it, I mean, it was 5.5 million that went to her team.
So she had other motivation. But I have never seen somebody so zealously represent somebody. I mean that seriously. She would have three experts when only one was needed. She sometimes, I think she had four experts, maybe when it came to the genetic genealogy, when she was trying not to have that put in, something like that. It was outrageous. The media, when she wanted the media out, she had three experts there, do charts and graphs and it was unbelievable what she did. She was a jealous or I mean a zealous, not jealous, advocate of his. So I think he's going to be hard pressed. Having said that, why is anybody surprised? It's funny, I put out a tweet about this right when he pled. I said, this is all in the plan.
This is his plan. There was no way he was going to sit there. He bided his time for the right time when things had softened down, and here he comes again out with the reveal. And I don't think anybody who really has followed him closely is at all surprised about this. And my only thing is, and I know this is insidious, but if I tell you if there is a great documentation by Ann Taylor about everything she did that counterpoints what he is alleging, man, I will just really be shaking my head if you get where I'm going there.

**Robin Drake** (4:08)
Yeah.

**Tony Brueski** (4:10)
Are the T's crossed and the I's dotted?

**Robin Drake** (4:13)
Well, as I understand it, because I remember when Broken Plea first came out, and I made the true attempt to read it and put it down because it was pretty unreadable.
I explored it.
Because I explored it. I remember, I think we talked about with Bob and even Eric Faddis at the time, and that is the claims are just dumb because it wasn't part of the process yet. In other words, he pled guilty based on everything they've been through so far, which was a lot. It was overwhelming. And Ann Teller was working. I mean, we all agree. We were scared she was going to do her job better than anyone else because she was really his advocate. And then he pled guilty before they could even process anything else in the file, anything, any of the other evidence, including debris in hands. And so it wasn't that it was done and overlooked or it was excluded. No, it hadn't been part of the process yet of the investigation of the trial because it didn't get that far because everything else prior to that was already overwhelming that he pled guilty to. Then he stood in front of the judge three times, asked, did you do this? Yes. Did you do this? Yes. Did you do this? Yes. Told the murders. Did you get good counsel? Yes. Did you get good? I mean, it was so thorough. I mean, they did such a good job. And again, the claims made in the book, that he's resting his laurels on, to my knowledge, not being a lawyer, listen to our lawyers say that it just isn't legitimate because it didn't reach that point yet where they would do that extra investigative work on it. So he's just barking in the wind because, like we said with Rex Heuerman, I know I said it the other day, Rex Heuerman is using information as his only currency. So if he's got more bodies out there, as he gets bored and people aren't paying attention to him, he's gonna start trickling out more information like Dennis Rader-Dudden and like all these people that are narcissistic, self-centered, megalomaniac asses do, that they're going to trickle this stuff out. Since Kohberger didn't have time in his short pathetic life to kill any more people, he's spent his information currency, so he's gonna be getting attention any other way he can. I think, I'll tell you what, as people start ignoring him, please ignore this freak. You know, the one thing we might eventually get is he gets older and more bored and doesn't get the right bananas that he wants in there, is that we might finally figure out and he might start trickling some areas maybe to look for where he secreted a knife, maybe where his clothes wound up, maybe how he took that car apart so thoroughly. So if you just ignore him, we might actually get a little bit more.