What Is Post Traumatic Growth? with Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman

Morra Aarons-Mele (0:00)

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I'm Morra Aarons-Mele and this is The Anxious Achiever. Now if you're listening to this show, obviously you've heard of Abraham Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right, starts with the basics, safety, food, ends at the top, self-actualization, right?

Well, my guest today, Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, SBK, as he is known in the community, is a humanistic psychologist who has studied Maslow deeply for decades. And Scott also studies human potential, transcendence, loving the whole being that is ourself. He's one of my favorite psychologists. And he says that we've got it all wrong when it comes to Maslow. Actually, Maslow never made a pyramid. This is a creation of 1950s management scholars. Shocking, right? Because when we have a pyramid of things to actually achieve, we can check off the box when we've achieved self-actualization, which is actually not what Maslow ever intended, says Scott. Instead, self-actualization, through loving and accepting of yourself. I like to think of it almost as I understand my values, what I stand for, the credo of how I show up in this world, and I do it without apology or shame. Self-actualization is a process. We can feel self-actualized one day. We go home, life kicks us in the butt, we take a step back. It's a process. And that is why Scott has a philosophy and a deep body of research on choosing growth.

We as humans are never formed. We mess up all the time. Scott and I are both neurodivergent. We talk about that. We talk about sticking our foots in our mouth, feet in our mouth, see?

But we can choose growth. We can choose to love ourselves and leave with self-compassion. This is such a rich conversation. I just love talking to Scott. I could talk to him forever. And I also love how he takes us deep into human-centered leadership, humanistic psychology, and what Maslow really stood for. So enjoy my conversation with SEK.

Well, Scott, welcome back to The Anxious Achiever.

Scott Barry Kaufman (4:54)

Oh, thanks. Yeah. I really loved our last chat. So I'm looking forward to this. I remember exactly where I was in our last chat, because I was in a tiny Airbnb, and I was trying to do this setup, and it was like MacGyvering everything, and we got it to work.

Morra Aarons-Mele (5:09)

Totally. Well, I was in my basement by the cat litter, but I'm not, now I have this cute little studio. Beautiful. So, we have so much to talk about. As I was telling you before we started, I have literally four double-sided pages of notes, but that's only because I'm really excited, because I have a lot I want to talk to you about. But I do want to start with a project we're both working on.