What inflammation is really doing to your mind, body and 5 ways to protect your brain | Prof Ed Bullmore

**Jonathan** (0:00)
Welcome to ZOE Science and Nutrition, where world leading scientists explain how their research can improve your health.
It doesn't always begin with an obvious illness. Sometimes it starts with a feeling that something simply isn't right. You wake up exhausted after a full night's sleep. Small problems suddenly feel overwhelming. Your patience runs thin, motivation disappears. Maybe you stop calling friends back. The world feels heavier, as though your brain is struggling to keep up with life around it. Most of us would blame stress, burnout, aging, or modern life itself. But scientists are beginning to uncover another possibility. That inflammation inside the body may directly influence how we feel, think, and function.
For years, I thought finding things difficult was just part of being an adult. A normal response to building a company, supporting a family, and carrying responsibilities. I was raised to believe that emotions were private, that tiredness was weakness, and that the mind and body lived in entirely separate worlds. So like many people, I became very good at appearing fine on the outside, or feeling flat and exhausted on the inside. But over the last few years, I've started to question that story. What if the way we feel is deeply connected to our physical health, to stress, sleep, diet, inflammation, to the immune system itself? What if some of the feelings we associate with modern life are actually being shaped by biology inside the brain?
Today, I'm joined by Ed Bullmore, a professor of psychiatry at King's College London, and a leading voice in brain research. Ed's work challenges how we think about the relationship between the body and the brain, suggesting that inflammation may directly influence mood, motivation, behavior, and the way we experience the world around us. While controversial, his theory is rapidly moving from the fringe to mainstream science. From the biology of inflammation to the idea of a brain on fire, and finally to what we can do about it. This conversation explores how inflammation may shape how we feel, and what this means for life in the modern world.
Ed, thank you so much for joining me today.

**Ed Bullmore** (2:25)
Pleasure to be here, Jonathan.

**Jonathan** (2:27)
So we have a tradition here at ZOE where we always start with a quick fire round of questions, designed to be very hard for professors because we have some strict rules.
You can say yes or no, or if you have to, you can have a sentence. Are you willing to give it a go?

**Ed Bullmore** (2:41)
Of course.

**Jonathan** (2:42)
All right. Can my brain be affected if another part of my body is inflamed?

**Ed Bullmore** (2:47)
Yes.

**Jonathan** (2:48)
Am I more likely to experience depression if my body has inflammation?

**Ed Bullmore** (2:52)
Yes.

**Jonathan** (2:54)
Are more people than ever visiting their doctor with mental health issues like anxiety, depression, and stress?

**Ed Bullmore** (3:00)
Yes.

**Jonathan** (3:01)
Is someone's risk of depression mostly due to their genes?

**Ed Bullmore** (3:05)
Yes and no.

**Jonathan** (3:07)
If you have inflammation in your body, can you always tell?

**Ed Bullmore** (3:10)
No.

**Jonathan** (3:11)
Did we evolve to sometimes feel depressed?

**Ed Bullmore** (3:15)
Probably.

**Jonathan** (3:17)
And finally, what's the biggest myth that you often hear about depression?

**Ed Bullmore** (3:21)
It's all in the mind.

**Jonathan** (3:23)
I was brought up with a very traditional British attitude towards emotions. I was supposed to have a stiff upper lip, stay calm and carry on, and absolutely no matter what, never talk about my emotions. And I suspect there's quite a lot of listeners who are probably brought up in that same way. And I've realized over the last three or four years that this hasn't always been helping me.
As well as doing this podcast, I'm the CEO of a startup. It's immensely stressful. And I find that trying to be a good husband and father is also really hard.
And I think I have built this way of behaving over the last decades to pretend that everything is fine on the outside, while often on the inside, I'm feeling very low, sometimes really empty, struggling to keep going. And I understand that there are millions of people who like me, affected by low mood or anxiety or depression. Sometimes they might call it stress. And that many people continue to feel that even talking about that is a stigma, something that you shouldn't do. And you've spent many years researching mood and mental health in the brain. What is mental health and maybe how does that tie into some of what I've been talking about?

**Ed Bullmore** (4:33)
I think when we were brought up, and actually still, there's a very strong traditional view, that mental health, physical health are completely pulled apart. Mind and body have got nothing to do with each other. It's perfectly okay to go to your GP with a cough or a broken arm or some kind of physical complaint.