Up to the Stars and Down into the Gutter: Elon Musk's Ascent/Descent to SpaceX and White Nationalist Violence

**Andrew Keen** (0:00)
Hello, my name is Andrew Keen. Welcome to Keen On America, the daily interview show about the United States.
Hello, everybody. In this second weekend of June 26, there's only one story out here in Silicon Valley. Of course, it's the story of SpaceX's IPO. According to The Wall Street Journal, it proves the power of Elon Musk's superlative strategy. The Journal describes it as a Goldilocks debut. Very impressed. New York Times is, as The New York Times is typically, slightly more ambivalent, but headlines SpaceX's unlikely journey from far out idea to $2 trillion juggernaut. And of course, Keith Teare, That Was the Week, our weekly show on technology. Our summary also leads with the SpaceX IPO. He has a piece about Elon and the balloon civilization, Elon and the balloon. And then he says, civilization needs him. He suggests that most commentators are grimacing at the valuation, the $2 trillion valuation and the personal net worth of Elon Musk. Keith, I'm not so sure about that. Where's all this grimacing? Where's the evidence? I mean, as I said, the journal is very impressed. Even the Times in its own way acknowledges Musk's remarkable financial success.

**Keith Teare** (1:56)
So do you use the Internet at all, Andrew?

**Andrew Keen** (2:00)
No, what is that? I haven't come across that one yet.

**Keith Teare** (2:04)
You should just scroll through X or Facebook or LinkedIn. There's a huge pile on, that's P-I-L-E, second word on, about Elon's becoming a trillionaire and how disgusting it is, and the widening gap between the rich and the poor, and the fact that SpaceX lost $4 billion last year. How could it be worth this much money?
It's everywhere, wall to wall, and very dominant.

**Andrew Keen** (2:35)
Well, I haven't seen it. As I said, if you look at the journal front page, and they're not always friendly to mask.

**Keith Teare** (2:43)
This is you and media. This is you and media. You're looking at the-

**Andrew Keen** (2:47)
Well, you troll the bathroom, Keith. You go into the rubbish dump. You're always going to find people who are upset for one reason or another. It's not Elon, it's Beezus, or Epstein, or Trump, or somebody else. Okay, so let's break it down. Of course, you're right. A lot of people aren't particularly happy. There are a number of elements to what you call this grimace at the valuation. On the one hand, there's the fact that people don't like Elon. We'll come to that later. I know you're a big fan.
Should people like him simply because, I mean, he clearly is an absolutely brilliant businessman. I mean, I don't think anyone could argue that.

**Keith Teare** (3:35)
I don't think it matters whether you like him.

**Andrew Keen** (3:37)
Well, it does.

**Keith Teare** (3:38)
I'm not even sure I like him. You know, you assess him, you analyze him.

**Andrew Keen** (3:45)
Well, you admire him. I mean, that's how we approach the world. I mean, we make moral judgments on people, and that's how we make sense of the world, isn't it?

**Keith Teare** (3:57)
I think you judge him, and you judge him against a set of criteria. It's not an abstract judgment. It's, you know, your criteria really shapes your judgment.
So if your criteria is as narrow as how much he's worth, you're going to have a particular view. And if your criteria is the future of civilization, you might have a different view.

**Andrew Keen** (4:21)
Yeah, I mean, you've used this word before, Keith, civilization. I have to admit, I'm deeply ambivalent, but we'll come to that later.
But there's no doubt that it's a, I mean, you're an expert on IPOs and venture. I mean, it's an absolutely brilliant maneuver. How has he done this? I mean, how would you, what narrative would you give? I mean, as the Times says, this unlikely journey, and of course, that's Musk's journey from far out, far out idea to true trillion dollar juggernaut. The BBC has some images of his, what they call their, his stratospheric rise to trillionaire status. Back in 2020, he was the 35th richest person in the world. Now, of course, he's the richest man by quite a large margin. So how has he done this?

**Keith Teare** (5:19)
Well, let's ignore Tesla for a minute. Let's ignore Neuralink. Let's just focus on SpaceX. SpaceX is 25-ish years old. So it's a two-and-a-half-decade-long effort. And it started with a warehouse in El Segundo near LA, which is an area where there's a lot of rocket scientists, weirdly, who are skilled in the art. And he started playing with the idea of a reusable rocket. And little by little, he failed. He actually bet almost all of his gains from Tesla on SpaceX and almost lost it all.