Understanding & Healing the Mind | Dr. Karl Deisseroth

**Andrew Huberman** (0:00)
Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a Professor of Neurobiology and Ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. Today, I have the pleasure of introducing the first guest of the Huberman Lab podcast. My guest is Dr. Karl Deisseroth. Dr. Karl Deisseroth is a medical doctor, he's a psychiatrist, and a research scientist at Stanford School of Medicine. In his clinical practice, he sees patients dealing with a range of nervous system disorders, including obsessive-compulsive disorder, autism, attention deficit disorders, schizophrenia, mania, anxiety disorders, and eating disorders. His laboratory develops and explores tools with which to understand how the nervous system works in the healthy situation, as well as in disorders of the mind. Dr. Deisseroth's laboratory has pioneered the development and use of what are called channel opsins, proteins that come from algae, which can now be introduced to the nervous systems of animals and humans in order to precisely control the activity of neurons in the brain and body with the use of light. This is an absolutely transformative technology, because whereas certain drug treatments can often relieve certain symptoms of disorders, they often carry various side effects, and in some individuals, often many individuals, these drug treatments simply do not work. The channel opsins and their related technologies stand to transform the way that we treat psychiatric illness and various disorders of movement and perception. In fact, just recently, the channel opsins were applied in a human patient to allow an adult, fully blind human being to see light for the very first time. We also discuss Dr. Deisseroth's newly released book, which is entitled Projections, A Story of Human Emotions. This is an absolutely remarkable book that uses stories about his interactions with his patients to teach you how the brain works in the healthy and diseased state, and also reveals the motivation for and discovery of these channel opsins and other technologies by Karl's laboratory that are being used now to treat various disorders of the nervous system, and that in the future are certain to transform the fields of psychiatry, mental health and health in general. I found our conversation to be an absolutely fascinating one about how the brain functions in the healthy state and why and how it breaks down in disorders of the mind. We also discuss the current status and future of psychedelic treatments for psychiatric illness, as well as for understanding how the brain works more generally. We also discuss issues of consciousness and we even delve into how somebody like Karl who's managing a full-time clinical practice and a 40 plus person laboratory and a family of five children and is happily married, how he organizes his internal landscape, his own thinking in order to manage that immense workload and to progress forward for the sake of medicine and his pursuits in science. I found this to be an incredible conversation. I learned so much. I also learned through the course of reading Karl's book Projections that not only is he an accomplished psychiatrist and obviously an accomplished research scientist and a family man, but he's also a phenomenal writer. Projections is absolutely masterfully written. It's just beautiful. And it's accessible to anybody, even if you don't have a science background. So I hope that you'll enjoy my conversation with Karl Deisseroth as much as I did. And thank you for tuning in. Before we begin, I want to point out that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. In my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public, I'd like to acknowledge the sponsors of today's podcast. Our first sponsor is Athletic Greens. Athletic Greens is an all-in-one vitamin mineral probiotic drink. I've been taking Athletic Greens since 2012, so I'm delighted that they're sponsoring the podcast. The reason I started taking Athletic Greens and the reason I still take Athletic Greens once or twice a day is that it helps me cover all of my basic nutritional needs. It makes up for any deficiencies that I might have. In addition, it has probiotics, which are vital for microbiome health. I've done a couple of episodes now on the so-called gut microbiome and the ways in which the microbiome interacts with your immune system, with your brain to regulate mood and essentially with every biological system relevant to health throughout your brain and body. With Athletic Greens, I get the vitamins I need, the minerals I need and the probiotics to support my microbiome. If you'd like to try Athletic Greens, you can go to athleticgreens.com/huberman and claim a special offer. They'll give you five free travel packs plus a year supply of vitamin D3 K2. There are a ton of data now showing that vitamin D3 is essential for various aspects of our brain and body health. Even if we're getting a lot of sunshine, many of us are still deficient in vitamin D3. And K2 is also important because it regulates things like cardiovascular function, calcium in the body and so on. Again, go to athleticgreens.com/huberman to claim the special offer of the five free travel packs and the year supply of vitamin D3 K2. Today's episode is also brought to us by Element. Element is an electrolyte drink that has everything you need and nothing you don't. That means the exact ratios of electrolytes are in Element and those are sodium, magnesium and potassium, but it has no sugar. I've talked many times before on this podcast about the key role of hydration and electrolytes for nerve cell function, neuron function, as well as the function of all the cells and all the tissues and organ systems of the body. If we have sodium, magnesium and potassium present in the proper ratios, all of those cells function properly and all our bodily systems can be optimized. If the electrolytes are not present and if hydration is low, we simply can't think as well as we would otherwise. Our mood is off, hormone systems go off, our ability to get into physical action, to engage in endurance and strength and all sorts of other things is diminished. So with Element, you can make sure that you're staying on top of your hydration and that you're getting the proper ratios of electrolytes. If you'd like to try Element, you can go to Drink Element, that's lmnt.com/huberman and you'll get a free Element sample pack with your purchase. They're all delicious. So again, if you want to try Element, you can go to Element, lmnt.com/huberman. Today's episode is also brought to us by Thesis. Thesis makes what are called Neutropics, which means smart drugs. Now, to be honest, I am not a fan of the term Neutropics. I don't believe in smart drugs in the sense that I don't believe that there's any one substance or collection of substances that can make us smarter. I do believe, based on science, however, that there are particular neural circuits and brain functions that allow us to be more focused, more alert, access creativity, be more motivated, et cetera. That's just the way that the brain works, different neural circuits for different brain states. Thesis understands this. And as far as I know, they're the first Neutropics company to create targeted Neutropics for specific outcomes. I've been using Thesis for more than six months now, and I can confidently say that the Neutropics have been a total game changer. My go-to formula is the Clarity formula, or sometimes I'll use their Energy formula before training. To get your own personalized Neutropics starter kit, go online to takethesis.com/huberman, take a three-minute quiz, and Thesis will send you four different formulas to try in your first month. That's takethesis.com/huberman, and use the code Huberman at checkout for 10% off your first order. And now my conversation with Dr. Karl Deisseroth. Well, thanks for being here.