Skip to content
Turning to Thomas Merton artwork

Turning to Thomas Merton

Turning to the Mystics with James Finley

February 24, 2020

In this episode, Kirsten Oates and James Finley are in conversation about Jim’s approach to studying the mystics, how one might integrate their teachings into our daily lives, and most notably a background and sense of the mystic who is the focus of this first series, Thomas Merton.

Speakers James Finley, Kirsten Oates

TopicsChristianityReligion & SpiritualitySpirituality

James Finley (0:01)

Greetings, I'm Jim Finley.

Kirsten Oates (0:04)

And I'm Kirsten Oates.

James Finley (0:05)

Welcome to Turning to the Mystics.

Kirsten Oates (0:16)

In season one of Turning to the Mystics, we're going to be turning to the Christian mystic, Thomas Merton. And in this episode, Jim will provide an introduction to Thomas Merton.

But before we turn to our mystic, we thought it would be good to always begin our intros with a reminder of the basic structure of contemplative or mystical Christianity.

So Jim, can you give us an overview of that basic structure?

James Finley (0:41)

Yes. Let's say we look back over these Christian mystics down through the centuries, and specifically these mystic teachers. That is, these mystics who offer trustworthy guidance to people who feel interiorly drawn toward this deeper unit of experience of God's presence in their life.

And let's say, then we say, well, who are these people? In the sense of if St. Francis of Assisi was a mystic, or Claire was a mystic, John of the Cross was a mystic, Eckhart was a mystic, Merton was a mystic. How can we understand what it is that makes these mystics mystics? That is, what is the nature of the teachings that they're offering us? And to me, what helps me to see it is to say this, that the mystics assume several things, which is very much rooted in kind of a classical understanding of the Christian faith. Also, it's in concert with the contemplative mystical traditions of all the world's great religions. There's a universality to this, but we're looking at it specifically within the Christian tradition. And it says they're assuming several things. You know, that first of all, there's the dignity and the reality and the complexities of the human experience. You have your life, I have mine. And just what does it mean to be a human being? Day by day in our life with each other and our passage through time. They're always assuming that. These are real life people living a real life.

And so in that sense, it's that. It's kind of a deep respect for the dignity and gift of the human experience.

Secondly, they assume that it's the human experience illumined by faith, and specifically as revealed in Christ and all of the scriptures, that we're living our life in a relationship with God and that God's in a relationship with us and God's in this related state of oneness with us.

And God's oneness with us is the reality of us. That is God's perpetually creating us, breath by breath, heartbeat by heartbeat.

And so the ultimate meaning of our life is found in that. See, how can I, in my capacity for spiritual awakenings, see how can I intimately have flashes or experiences of this divine faith dimension of the gift and miracle of my life? That God's giving himself, God's giving herself away in and as the intimate immediacy of myself, others and all things. And how can I then, through my faith, sense this inherent holiness for the gift of myself? And know that the measure of that holiness is love. The measure, because God is love. And so they're assuming that. Say they're assuming a life of goodwill, illumined by faith, or a following of discipleship. And the discipleship, they understand, general understanding is that the deepest sense of discipleship is intimacy. That the mystery of Christ is that we're called through Christ to share in Christ's own union with the Father. As we're called to participate or share in that as our destiny. So that's the Christian life. We would say that's the Christian life. And on this Christian life, this daily life, illumined by faith in the presence of God, the measure of which is love, that we know it on this earth as in a mirror darkly.

It's like an obscure certainty in our heart. Yes, but we trust that when death comes, when we pass through the veil of death, that we're not annihilated but consummated. And it'll no longer be knowing God's oneness with us mediated through faith, through consolations, through insights. It'll be unmediated divinity forever that we'll be sharing in God's own life as God shares in that life as our destiny. And that's the Christian life and that's hope. So our faith is a certainty in our heart, the measure of which is love. We live by hope in this ultimate fulfillment. And that's the Christian life. They assume that.

But they also assume that even now, it isn't just that when we pass to the veil of death, God will be all in all. But that even now God is all in all. That even now the infinite presence of God is presencing itself in and as the presence of myself, others, and all things.

38 more minutes of transcript below

Thousands of transcripts fetched by people building searchable podcast archives

Fetch the whole transcript

The demo key returns a sample episode in full, no card needed:

request
curl -H "x-api-key: pt_demo" \
  https://spoken.md/transcripts/1000651996090

Markdown with the speakers named, for your notes, your knowledge base, or anything that makes HTTP calls.

From $0.10 per transcript. No subscription. Credits never expire. Prices exclude VAT, added at checkout for EU customers. Not what you expected? Email us within 14 days with 20 or fewer credits used and we refund the pack in full.

Using your own key:

request
curl -H "x-api-key: YOUR_KEY" \
  https://spoken.md/transcripts/1000466521446