Turning to The Cloud of Unknowing

SPEAKER_1 (0:00)

You're listening to a podcast by the Center for Action and Contemplation. To learn more, visit cac.org.

James Finley (0:08)

Greetings, I'm Jim Finley.

Kirsten Oates (0:11)

And I'm Kirsten Oates.

James Finley (0:13)

Welcome to Turning to the Mystics.

Kirsten Oates (0:22)

Welcome, everyone, to season five of Turning to the Mystics. I'm here with Jim, and in today's session, we're going to introduce our season five mystic.

So Jim, who will we be guided by this season?

James Finley (0:40)

In this season, you know, in all the previous seasons, we always start out by referring to who the mystic was historically, to understand who the mystic is spiritually. But we can't do this because we don't know who the mystic is, because he's anonymous.

And so really, his spirit lives in his work, The Cloud of Unknowing. So his teaching and his presence are embodied there. So The Cloud of Unknowing, then, is the title of his book written in 14th century England.

And the next season after this one will be Julianne of Norwich, contemporary of his, also in Middle English. So that's what we're doing here. We're turning to this book, The Cloud of Unknowing, for the spiritual guidance that it offers us, you know.

Kirsten Oates (1:27)

And Jim, would you say that the author of This Cloud and then Julianne, who you're planning to do, are two of the main English mystics?

James Finley (1:36)

There are others. There's some others. But these are the two main ones, I think, that people most know of.

I should say this too, also, is I think most of us today, many of us are familiar with the teachings in The Cloud because of how it's been popularized.

By Thomas Keating and Basil Pennington and also Father William Meninger, three Trappist pre-monks. And also with Cynthia Brugio and her teachings also, and there are others. So I think what we're really presenting here is Centering Prayer. The Centering Prayer as taught directly by the anonymous author of The Cloud.

Kirsten Oates (2:14)

So, Jim, just on that note, this season we'll be learning a way of praying. It's similar to last season with Guigo.

James Finley (2:23)

Exactly.

And we'll also be comparing the two. And also comparing it to Teresa and John, which is also a way of praying. We'll see how they're all related, but how they're distinguished from each other. As we kind of see how these mystics are in kind of concert with one another. But each one has his or her own unique voice.

Kirsten Oates (2:43)

Lovely. Just a question about the author. What do we know about him? What was his vocation?

Do we know his vocation?

James Finley (2:51)

Some people, I've heard writings where he might have been a Carthusian, hermit, like Guigo.

I've heard also a Dominican people, but we don't know. The one you hear most often is Carthusian. What we do know is he's writing it to a directee, he's a contemplative spiritual director.

And so he's writing it because he discerns this person that he's directing has come to this place in their life. But he's also clearly writing to all of us, because he's writing it as general principles. So as we read it, we can discern the degree or the way in which it applies to us. And I think anyone who's nurtured by listening to this sequence of sessions, it applies to us by that very fact it nurtures us. As far as this mystical language touches us or accesses us, it bears witness, you know, that this pertains to us, and we have helpful things to learn from this teacher, this mystic teacher.

Kirsten Oates (3:48)

Lovely. So we think he was a monk. We're not sure what.

James Finley (3:52)

We don't know. Yeah, we don't know.

Kirsten Oates (3:54)

And then the book is, like a lot of these mystics, you're helping us understand, Jim, they are, they're very pastoral. It's spiritual direction. It's meeting someone in their own life and in the stage of their journey, but it spreads out to help us all because we go through similar stages.

James Finley (4:13)

So I think what they're doing really, because they sat with people so often and contemplated spiritual direction, and because when people come to this mystical phase of their journey, they know how hard it is to find someone with whom you can talk about it, and also how to find trustworthy guidance in it, because it's hard to figure out what's happening to you and how not to get in the way of it, how to understand it. So it has that very personal, pastoral, kind of practical thing dressed to the heart of the person who is being led along this journey. All their writings have that quality to it.