Trump's Niece on Why He's On Putin's Side

Alastair Campbell (0:00)

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This episode is presented by IG. October is here and we're barreling towards the biggest financial moment of the year, the budget. Between that and you, Chancellor, and the new Prime Minister, there's genuine uncertainty about what's next for our finances.

Rory Stewart (0:28)

Of course, uncertainty is a massive problem for all of us. Rumours, speculation, opinions from absolutely everybody.

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Alastair Campbell (0:42)

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Rory Stewart (0:57)

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Alastair Campbell (1:06)

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Alastair Campbell (2:00)

If you listen to this podcast regularly, you will know I think Donald Trump is narcissistic, mendacious, incompetent, corrupt, a deeply maligned force in the world, and history will judge him as the worst president in history. Today we are joined by someone who thinks on similar lines, but who speaks from a much greater authority than I could ever hold, because she has known him all her life.

Mary Trump, his niece, the only woman in the world who can call him Uncle Donald. Not that she does so anymore, their relationship broke down some time ago, and she's not alone in the Trump clan of thinking Uncle Donald is a real and present danger to all that America should hold dear.

Where she is alone is that she's prepared to say it. Her insight is especially invaluable because she's a trained clinical psychologist, but also she's known not just Trump all her life, but also the family in which he was raised and the life he led before he became one of the most famous people on the planet. The picture she paints is not a pretty one, but it might help us answer this question. If he really is so bad, so empty, so cruel, so broken as a human being, what does it say about America and indeed our world that he became its president not once, but twice, and even worse, second time around?

Rory Stewart (3:10)

Well, welcome to The Rest Is Politics Leading with me, Rory Stewart.

Alastair Campbell (3:14)

And me, Alastair Campbell.

Rory Stewart (3:15)

Mary, I guess firstly welcome. Thank you for coming all this way from the States. Can I sort of start on a slightly different level, which is what does it feel to get that kind of introduction? Is it a bit unsettling? Are you getting a bit tired of having to talk about your uncle? What's the...?

Mary Trump (3:29)

The introduction was spot on. You know, that is an excellent summation of where we are leading to that very important question. How did we get here? I'm tired of it to this extent.

It's maybe tired of is not putting it strongly enough. I'm sick to death of having to talk about Donald Trump because he's still such a relevant presence in our lives. And that is both tragedy and travesty that we have indeed gotten to this place where we can't ignore him. There was a time in American politics where that would have been the best thing to do, but we're beyond that now because he's having a very real deleterious impact every single day throughout the world and it's actually getting worse.

Rory Stewart (4:18)

Just on that, was there a time when you thought, okay, enough, I'm not going to talk about it anymore? And then a time when you thought, actually, this matters and I need to keep talking about it because it matters to the world?