Transform Pain & Trauma Into Creative Expression | David Choe

**David Choe** (0:00)
I'm a severe gambling addict. Every single addiction is gambling addiction. If you drink and drive, you're gambling. Addiction is one of those things you can't apply logic to. People, what are you running from, Dave? I was like, well, I'm fucking running from myself, dude. I don't want to look in the mirror. I don't want to see myself. I hate myself. So I'm just running. So as long as I'm like doing graffiti, running from the police, you know, just hopping on a train, like literal running, like literally running to make sure I'm never sit still for one second. Like, what are you doing, Dave? I'm playing drums in a band. I'm, you know, at a casino. I'm traveling, doing the News for Vice. I'm painting at this. Like, I can't sit still because that means I have to sit with myself and I can't do that. I can't do that.
I couldn't do that. I couldn't do that. I can now.

**Andrew Huberman** (0:55)
Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is David Choe. David Choe is an artist. He's a highly accomplished painter, graffiti and street artist, writer, podcaster, and television host. Many of you are perhaps familiar with David as the guy who famously painted the original Facebook offices, took equity for the job, and got rich. Now that's a wild story, but David's whole life journey, what he did prior to and after that, and what he has overcome along the way is a million times wilder. As he shares today, David grew up hearing and thinking that he was destined for greatness, but also hearing and thinking that he was a total disgrace. Today, he talks with complete openness and vulnerability about addiction, about cycles of success and failure, and about channeling and overcoming deep shame. Today's podcast is unlike any other that I've hosted. David is wide open about his childhood abuse, his massive success, then career setbacks, relapses, and transmuting every possible emotion into art along the way. So no matter who you are, David's story, and just as importantly, how he's living right now, how he shows up on this podcast, will change what you think is possible for you in life. It will force you to look inward and to use whatever joy and pain you have inside of you to be the best human being you can possibly be. David Choe is, as we say in science, an N of one, meaning there is no other like him. Yes, because of his incredible art, but also for his willingness to share so openly and honestly so that others can benefit and grow. I consider it a true honor and privilege to host David on this podcast, and frankly, it's impossible not to love him. This one is incredibly raw and honest. It's also full of surprises, many of which are fun surprises. So buckle up. Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, today's episode does include sponsors. And now for my discussion with David Choe. David Choe, welcome.

**David Choe** (3:12)
Thank you for having me, man.

**Andrew Huberman** (3:14)
And a huge long time fan. Love your art. I've been super inspired by your YouTube channel. I watch it sometimes before I do my drawing or I prepare for a podcast.

**David Choe** (3:24)
What are you drawing?

**Andrew Huberman** (3:25)
I draw a lot of anatomy on top of some paintings. So I do neuroanatomy on top of some paintings that my friend, Tim Armstrong, has been doing. A musician at Leeds Center in Ransom.

**David Choe** (3:36)
Is it anatomically correct or is it like exaggerated or is it?

**Andrew Huberman** (3:39)
This is a really good question. So, in essence, it's anatomically correct. But around the turn of the last entry, two guys, Cahal and Golgi, won the Nobel Prize for drawing the nervous system and showing these things no one had seen before. And they stripped away everything except the essential piece.

**David Choe** (3:59)
I'm gonna come paint with you. I don't like what's happening in your painting studio. Just from what you said so far, it's not good. But it's good because you did that. And then now we have to strip that away. We have to get at the core of it because painting is... Wait, weren't you in the middle of complimenting me? Like, keep going.