Tough Love or Tough Luck? - with Rahm Emanuel

**Dan Senor** (0:01)
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**Yossi Klein Halevi** (0:48)
You are listening to an Ark Media podcast.

**Rahm Emanuel** (0:54)
I disagree with the Democratic Socialists. I'm not for defunding the police. I'm not for open borders. I'm not for eliminating prisons. I'm for turning red to blue. I don't give any win. There's no medals. There's no third grade trophy for effort, turning blue to cobalt blue. I don't believe in that.
Those are all policy people. I also believe, because I win elections, I also believe in passing health care, in passing minimum wage, and you can't do it on your strategy. I don't support these people, and I don't want them in the Democratic Party. And there's a reason you're not invited, because your socialism, as we would say in Chicago, that dog doesn't hunt.

**Dan Senor** (1:42)
It's 12:30 p.m. on Sunday, July 12th in New York City. It's 7:30 p.m. on Sunday, July 12th in Israel. As Israelis just got word of the official announcement of the commencement of Israel's next election season, the elections will take place on October 27th of this year.
We are also absorbing the shocking news of the sudden death of Senator Lindsey Graham.
I'll have more to say about Senator Graham and his legacy on Call Me Back in the days ahead. Lindsey played an outsized role in American national security and geopolitics, issues that I spoke to him about quite a lot and sometimes worked with him on projects. He was a champion of the US. Israel relationship and influenced many key decisions, often working with presidential administrations of both parties. He died after returning from his 10th trip to Ukraine. That was his 10th trip since the Russia-Ukraine war began in 2022 I recently got together with him for lunch. It was just a few weeks ago. As always, he was full of insights and wit. Lindsey Graham was an original. May his memory be for a blessing. Turning to our guest today, Rahm Emanuel has spent 30 years in the rough and tumble of US politics, campaign advisor to Democratic presidential campaigns, congressman, chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, Chicago's mayor, Obama's chief of staff. A man by his own account went toe to toe with Benjamin Netanyahu. Last week, Rahm Emanuel went back to Israel and gave what has been characterized and reported in the Israeli press as a tough love speech to Israelis at Tel Aviv University. There's a link to that speech in the show description. In his address, Rahm Emanuel said, Without question, the alliance, meaning the US-Israel alliance, cannot stand or survive as it has been. He said, Netanyahu has led the country to a dead end, turned it into a regional pariah, and called the pursuit of greater Israel, meaning Israel having maximalist biblical ambitions for the territory it controls, including annexation of the West Bank and possibly even beyond. He said, that ambition of greater Israel as destructive and fanatical, his words, as the chant from the river to the sea. He morally equated the two.
The reaction was instant. Just to give you one example, the free presses Peter Svobodnik called it, quote, a masterclass in a genre he has little patience for. Peter wrote, to survive today's Democratic Party, Jews must apologize for the Jewish state, close quote. Rahm Emanuel is a son of Israeli immigrants to the United States. He has not ruled out running for president in 2028 So which is it? Tough love from a lifelong ally, trying to save a relationship, the U.S.-Israel relationship before it's lost, or tough luck dressed up as principal for a party base he needs.
Rahm Emanuel joins me right after this quick break.

**Daniel Hartman** (4:58)
Hi, I'm Daniel Hartman, president of the Shalom Hartman Institute in Jerusalem.

**Yossi Klein Halevi** (5:02)
And I'm Yossi Klein Halevi, senior fellow at the Shalom Hartman Institute.

**Daniel Hartman** (5:06)
What's more important, to be feared by your enemies or morally true to yourself?

**Yossi Klein Halevi** (5:11)
Should Israel strive to be a nation among nations, or should it accept the fact that it is now a fortress apart?