The White Oak Shortage That Could Ruin the Bourbon Industry

Joe Weisenthal (0:10)

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots Podcast. I'm Joe Weisenthal.

Tracy Alloway (0:15)

And I'm Tracy Alloway.

Joe Weisenthal (0:16)

Tracy, in a new studio today.

Tracy Alloway (0:19)

I know, isn't it great?

Joe Weisenthal (0:20)

If you're just listening to the podcast on the audio, I guess nothing has changed, but if you're checking it out on video, on YouTube, on Quick Take, et cetera, streaming, it looks different. You should check it out.

Tracy Alloway (0:32)

Yeah, for sure. I think we're leaning into the sort of 90s Nickelodeon Spongebob vibe, maybe.

Joe Weisenthal (0:40)

That is a very interesting, I like that aesthetic a lot.

Tracy Alloway (0:43)

After school special.

Joe Weisenthal (0:45)

This is an after school special, except today's topic is not like really, well, kind of is, it's kind of an after school special vibe because today we're going to be talking about alcohol.

Tracy Alloway (0:56)

Yes, okay, but not just alcohol. We're doing a supply chain episode, classic Odd Lots supply chain episode.

Joe Weisenthal (1:04)

Yes, and so have we ever talked about the alcohol industry before?

Tracy Alloway (1:07)

I don't think we have.

Joe Weisenthal (1:08)

I don't think we have either, but it's one of those things where it's like, okay, like you go, you ask for a drink, et cetera, and you probably do not think too much unless you're like a true connoisseur of something about what it took to get there.

Tracy Alloway (1:23)

Yeah, I think that's right. And I mean, to be fair, that is the case with almost all the supply chain episodes that we do, which is people use these final products and goods, they don't always necessarily realize what goes into them until something happens, there's a disruption of some sort, and then suddenly everyone realizes, oh, actually, you need this component in order to make this thing that I really like.

Joe Weisenthal (1:43)

The other thing that I've been thinking a lot about with respect to supply chains is that there seem to be some issues that arise that I don't know if mechanical is the right word, but where it's like, you can change something and maybe fixing it. Like capacity at the ports, for example. Like in theory, that seems like a sort of like human solvable problem.

Whereas we talk about other issues that arise in which we're sort of like dependent on natural phenomenon or at the mercy of natural phenomenon, such as drought. And say the level of the water level of the Mississippi River, like there is very little that like humans can do, certainly in a short period of time to sort of like make water levels higher when that becomes a problem.

Tracy Alloway (2:25)

Yeah, and I think for this episode, the time frame is really key. And if I think back to an episode that is perhaps most relevant to what we're about to discuss, it's some of the ones we did with Stinson Dean, where we talked about lumber supply and just how long it takes to actually grow the trees that we use for all sorts of things, from housing, construction being the most important one.

Joe Weisenthal (2:46)

Well, and so there is this supply chain tension that maybe we're gonna see within alcohol, specifically the world of bourbon. And there are many aspects of it that are just slow moving barrels, building them or the trees required to make the barrels, the aging process, et cetera. It's sort of like this slow moving supply chain that probably many people don't really think about, but there could be issues in the future, at least according to our guests who will have on.

Tracy Alloway (3:15)

Right, a slow moving supply chain crisis is the theme of this particular episode. But I think it is true that when you think about bourbon, most people think bourbon, oh, it comes from corn and fermenting corn.

Not everyone immediately thinks about the barrels that it's aged in and where those actually come from.

Joe Weisenthal (3:34)

Are you a bourbon fan, by the way?

Tracy Alloway (3:36)

No, I'm the worst alcohol drinker. I drink almost exclusively light beer.

Joe Weisenthal (3:41)

I try to get into dark, sort of like brown, like heavy alcohol, like, I don't know, like once every few years, like, because I think it would be nice or relaxing. Hasn't happened yet, but I am aware and I respect people for whom that is, like, you know, I'm aware that that's a popular thing.

Tracy Alloway (3:56)

Maybe this will give us both a newfound appreciation for bourbon.

Joe Weisenthal (4:00)

Exactly. All right. Well, I am very excited about our guest. We're going to be speaking with Calvin Norman. He's an assistant teaching professor of forestry at Penn State. And he says, there is a looming under the radar supply chain, maybe crisis is the right word, problem coming for the bourbon industry, thanks to the wood that's needed for the barrels. So we're going to learn about something. You know what I'm excited about too? This is not like a crisis in the public view yet. So maybe we can like help get ahead of something and maybe it'll never become a crisis, as opposed to say, like, oh, how did this happen?