The Ultimate Protein Blueprint: How to Build Strength & Live Longer | Dr. Donald Layman

**Dr. Gabrielle Lyon** (0:00)
Does eating too much protein actually damage your kidneys? Is red meat unfairly being blamed for things like climate change and chronic disease? Are plant-based meat alternatives healthy and nutritious? Or just marketing hype? Hi, I'm Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, and today on the podcast, we are tackling the most controversial and trending topics about protein head on. Now, you might be thinking, how did we cover this before? Not exactly. While we've talked a lot about the importance of dietary protein, this episode is going to be quite different. Here's why. In this episode, we will be covering brand new groundbreaking research and major developments in 2025 that are shaking up the conversation around protein, nutrition, and public health. Joining me is Dr. Donald Layman, a world-renowned protein expert and my personal mentor. Together, we'll uncover the latest science bust myths and dive into how anti-meat narratives might be leading us away from optimal nutrition. This episode will help you feel super prepared for the year ahead. Let's dive in.
Dr. Donald Layman, welcome to the show.

**Dr. Donald Layman** (1:21)
It's great to be back.

**Dr. Gabrielle Lyon** (1:23)
You are the most frequent guest on this podcast, and today is unlike any other day because we're probably going to offend just about everyone. We decided to wake up and choose violence with our discussion on protein. How do you feel about that?

**Dr. Donald Layman** (1:40)
It's a no-nonsense day, right? Let's go.

**Dr. Gabrielle Lyon** (1:43)
It's a no-nonsense day. For those of you who don't know Dr. Donald Layman, he has been my best friend and mentor for over 20 years now. I'm looking pretty good for 25 We met when I was just five years old. But all jokes aside, you are one of the world-leading experts in protein metabolism, and you have contributed to the world substantially. And I am so grateful to have you here to share your knowledge. And quite frankly, part of my work is to share your knowledge. So thank you so much.

**Dr. Donald Layman** (2:18)
It's been fun. I love what I do. People ask me about retiring from the university, and it's still my hobby. So I love doing it.

**Dr. Gabrielle Lyon** (2:25)
Well, you are world-class at that. And to kick off our first question and just really our first discussion, protein now in this age of data, awareness, it seems that the status of the American diet is in a pretty poor place. And I'm curious as to how you begin to think about where we're at from a nutritional standpoint.

**Dr. Donald Layman** (2:55)
I think I always start with, you know, where we're at, we're eating too many calories. And the calories we're eating aren't very healthy. They're very low in nutrient density. We're eating way too many grains. 65% of Americans are eating more grains in total, breads, cereals, rice, pasta, than they need. And 95% are eating too many refined grains. And frankly, we're eating too many foods that have low nutrient density. And about 45% of people in the US are eating below their protein needs. So we've just got a really poor balance of the foods we're selecting.

**Dr. Gabrielle Lyon** (3:39)
You know, I think that's a very interesting statement. We were looking at some of the dietary guidelines, the intakes compared to the recommendations. And oftentimes, we hear that we're eating too much protein. But according to that graph, 45% of individuals eating American diet are below the RDAs.

**Dr. Donald Layman** (4:00)
Right. And so you can find individuals who are eating above the requirement. You can find guys in particular who may be eating a lot of protein. But as you just said, 45% are considered eating below. And then you really have to start looking at those groups. Older women over the age of 60 are particularly low. Young women are particularly low. And so you start having to really individualize how you think about protein.

**Dr. Gabrielle Lyon** (4:28)
And you mentioned grains versus refined grains. Can you talk a little bit about that? And how do we think about that in the overall health landscape?

**Dr. Donald Layman** (4:38)
I think it's important to recognize that grains are a cheap form of calories. And the food industry loves to sell them. So you can go out and buy a bushel of wheat for $6. And you can make it into 45 boxes of a wheat cereal that you sell for $4 each. So that's something over a 30-fold profit. So there should be no doubt in anyone's mind that the food industry wants to sell you grains. And what we hear is that, well, people aren't eating enough whole grains. And that's a fiber statement. But the reality is most people are eating too many grains in general and certainly too many refined grains. So I think if there's any one change I would make in the American diet, I'd cut the grains in half to begin with.