The Sum-of-All-Fears Election - with Yossi Klein Halevi and Donniel Hartman

**Dan Senor** (0:00)
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**Yossi Klein Halevi** (0:42)
You are listening to an Ark Media podcast.
The dread of the other camps' victory is really what is defining this election. Now, it's true that every election is defined by its antagonists as an existential threat. But this time, it really rings true. The great fear is the disintegration of Israeli society. And the perception among opposition voters is that we have a government whose essence is schism.

**Donniel Hartman** (1:16)
I'm thinking of a research colleague of mine. She's not frightened of Charydine. She's angry at Charydine. This is where particularly Bennett and Lieberman are trying to get their voters, like to activate not fear but anger. Netanyahu government is a government that doesn't see you, doesn't care about you, doesn't hear you. It doesn't care about people in the north. It doesn't care about people serving. It's out of touch with Israeli society.

**Dan Senor** (1:55)
It's 7 a.m. on Sunday, June 14th here in New York City, home to the NBA champions, the New York Knicks, the basketball team of the city that is the capital of the Jewish diaspora. It is 2 p.m. on Sunday, June 14th in Israel.
I know there's a lot of questions and concern and interest in what's happening with the Iran deal, the U.S.-Iran deal. Is it happening? Is it not happening? There's gonna be a lot on that. We'll be returning to it during the week. Until the deal is inked, we did not want to get into it. All right, so let's jump in.
Israelis are famously resilient, but beneath that tough exterior, they are also carrying deep trauma, especially after these past few years. And the accumulated trauma of these past few years is going to shape the coming election in many ways and in many profound ways. But not all traumas were created equal. Israel's different communities, identities and voting blocks will arrive at the ballot box carrying different views, different sentiments and different wounds and different hopes. In some cases, one voter's hope is another voter's trauma. And to complicate things further, even within each of Israel's major political camps, those hopes and fears certainly don't always align. So what are these undercurrents supposed to mean as we head into elections? And how are they going to play out on election day? To help us think this through, I'm joined by two people who've spent these past few years using their podcast to examine Israel's soul under the pressure of current events, without flinching, without cheerleading, and of course, without losing their love of country. I'm referring of course to Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi, hosts of For Heaven's Sake, an Ark Media-Hartman Institute collaboration. Yossi, Daniel, welcome to this special one-year anniversary simulcast from when we began working together.

**Donniel Hartman** (3:53)
Good morning, Dan.

**Yossi Klein Halevi** (3:54)
Great to be with you.

**Dan Senor** (3:55)
I want to emphasize this is a simulcast, so we should welcome you too, For Heaven's Sake, For Heaven's Sake listeners. And I will say, I know the spirit of your guys' podcast is to disagree, healthy, constructive, spirited disagreement. I sometimes find myself disagreeing with you two more than you two disagree with each other. And I find myself yelling at the phone and the earbuds as I'm listening to you. So I figured rather than yelling like a weirdo when I'm walking around the street, I figured just have you on and we could disagree with each other.

**Donniel Hartman** (4:30)
That's For Heaven's Sake. Welcome. Welcome to the experience.

**Dan Senor** (4:35)
The title of this episode is The Sum of All Fears Election. Why is this a fear election and not a hope election? I'll start with you, Yossi.

**Yossi Klein Halevi** (4:45)
Well, every Israeli election that I've ever participated in is about fear. The question is how acute is the fear and what's the balance between fear and hope. In this election, I think it's true for all the camps.
The dread of the other camps victory is really what is defining this election. Naftali Bennett said just today that if this government, this coalition is returned to power, Israeli society will disintegrate and he defines this as an existential threat. Now it's true that every election is defined by its antagonists as an existential threat, but this time it really rings true. Certainly for voters of the opposition parties, the great fear is the disintegration of Israeli society. And the perception among opposition voters is that we have a government whose essence is schism, is to tear the society apart, energize its base by inciting hatred for the other side. And what I hear very often from opposition voters is that this is a government that doesn't care whether I live or die. This is a government that hates me to such an extent that it actually would be pleased if I emigrated.