The Strength to Surrender - Matthew S7E2

Joby Martin (0:00)

Sometimes, you've seen people's faces when I said this, I was like, some of you are like Judas, and you think, I would never betray Jesus. Your Instagram does.

Pastor One (0:09)

Yeah, that hit hard.

Joby Martin (0:10)

Your social life does.

The way you treat your wife does. We betray them all the time.

Vinke (0:17)

Welcome back to the Deepen Podcast with Pastor Joby Martin, and today we have Pastor Onay with us again. Welcome, my friend, thank you.

Joby Martin (0:24)

A regular.

Vinke (0:26)

Pastor Joby, I feel that maybe you were referencing Jonathan Edwards a little bit as well in the beginning of that message. Sinners in the hands of an angry guy.

Joby Martin (0:35)

100%.

Vinke (0:36)

Doesn't he say your, does he say thread or a chair, something like that, you're suspended over the fires of it?

Joby Martin (0:43)

Yeah, I think he says dangling on a thread. That might be the most misunderstood sermon.

Vinke (0:48)

100%.

Joby Martin (0:49)

Of all time.

The idea is that we, this is some of his language and my remembrance of it. I remember reading it like an English class in high school and they were basically like, look how awful the Puritans were because they just preach hellfire and brimstone like sinners in the hands of an angry God. And then finally, when I'm maybe in college, I read it. I'm like, well, my English teacher's dumb. She didn't know how words work because the whole point is it's the graceful hands of God that are holding us from falling into hell that we are trying to jump headlong into. And we are but sinners in the hands of a God whose anger we deserve. And yet he offers us grace.

Pastor One (1:41)

That's good.

Joby Martin (1:42)

No wonder she didn't know how to grade me. You know what's funny?

Speaking of English class, I always did the worst. I've never made an A on an English paper, ever. Middle school, high school, college, or grad school, never.

And if I could remember who my English teachers were, and if they were still living, I would send them copies of New York Times about selling books. Ha ha, grade that. Because I'm so dumb, they would be like, what does this represent? The only way you would know is you would have to ask the author. 100%.

Vinke (2:24)

Is it because you get straight to the point, and a lot of times in English class, they make you explain it seven times, different ways?

Joby Martin (2:32)

You know, you'd be studying some poem. It's about this. Because he was lunatic and he cut his ear off. He didn't make good decisions. What are you talking about?

Vinke (2:42)

What else am I supposed to say?

Joby Martin (2:43)

You know, like, the car is yellow. What does that represent? Oh, I don't know. They had a, they had a sale at Mako on yellow cars. I mean, so I just thought it was silliness. I thought it was an exercise. I get it. I mean, you know, if I watch a movie like The Dead Poets Society, I'm intrigued by that kind of thing. But you know, and I kind of don't like it.

Like too many people try to do that with the Bible. They allegorize everything, as you know.

Vinke (3:19)

I had a similar experience with Sinners in the Hand of the Spanangry God.

I remember my youth group, the only time they ever explained anything related to Puritanism or Calvinism, it was, do you think this is how God is? And they referenced that in a very restorative way. Okay, and then I was like, what's the key phrase there?

Joby Martin (3:42)

Do you think?

Vinke (3:43)

Exactly, yeah.

Joby Martin (3:44)

Who cares what you think? And now it matters a lot about your eternal security.

Vinke (3:48)

Yeah.

Joby Martin (3:48)

Salvation.

Vinke (3:49)

And then I read it saying...

Joby Martin (3:50)

Every time, every time, I'm on, I think I'm on all the podcasts now. I think I did it, I checked.

Vinke (3:59)

A lot of them, you did good.

Joby Martin (4:00)

Well, you know, the Christian ones. So, and when it comes up about, are you a Calvinist?

I go, for ease of communication, I think I know what you mean, but I don't love categories like that because there are many, many things Calvin believed in that I do not. Yeah. Like a state church, he was pro that. I'm not. You know what I mean? Anyway, I wouldn't take marriage advice from Calvin, things like that. But do I believe, or some people will say it this way, do you believe in predestination? Who cares what you believe? The Bible just literally says it. Like it just says, we are, you have been predestined. There's a verse. Okay, so the key is what does the book say. And then, because I think the, I don't know we're going to get into this, the good hearted, high free will Armenian folks, the most charitable interpretation of what they're trying to do is defend the character of God. And that's when you get into the like, I mean, I just, how could God not even give somebody a chance? That kind of thing. I get what you're doing.