The Psychology of Leadership With Sébastien Page

Morra Aarons-Mele (0:00)

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I'm Morra Aarons-Mele, and this is The Anxious Achiever.

I know if you listen to this show, you're probably a fan of psychology. But how can you directly apply principles of psychology to leadership and to your team? Well, we have Sébastien Page. So Page is the Chief Investment Officer, and I'm reading this, Head of Global Multi-Asset T. Rowe Price. He's a big deal in finance. He's always on television talking about the markets. But Sébastien is kind of a renaissance man, and he's a writer. And when he was facing a stressful and hard time in his own life and career, he turned to psychology. He turned to personality psychology, the big five, sports psychology, and positive psychology. And I think it's really fascinating how he took these disciplines of psychology, which, you know, there are some that you could argue he left out. And we get into that, you know, there's a big focus, obviously. We've learned a lot from sports psychology on the great role of stress and optimizing human performance. I of course am an emotions person, so we try to talk about that. I think that what we come up with is that leadership is such a nuanced thing and that we can't look at it in any singular way. Like most things in life, leadership is a both and proposition. And so while we want to optimize our own performance, and we talk about lots of ways to do that, we also need to remember that we're only human, we have bad days, our emotions play a big role in how we show up at work, and sometimes we just got to take one for the team. So I love this discussion because we kind of have a lot of banter and discussion about how to choose almost the right psychology frames to apply to leadership, which I know you're going to love. So my conversation with Sébastien Page, who is author of The Psychology of Leadership, which is a great book that I highly suggest, and Chief Investment Officer at T.

Sébastien Page (4:37)

Rowe Price.

Morra Aarons-Mele (4:41)

Sébastien, it's wonderful to have you. We've had many starts in getting this recorded and I appreciate you sticking with me because I love what you do. I just think it's incredible.

Sébastien Page (4:55)

Well, likewise. I've been looking forward to this, so I'm excited.

Morra Aarons-Mele (4:58)

Thank you.

I want to ask you a little bit about your own drive here. But first, I'm going to ask you a question that I like to ask some of my guests, which is what does leadership mean to you?

Sébastien Page (5:11)

Leadership, to me, is all about showing the direction of travel.

Leaders should see their number one role as setting the long-term goals. I mean, think about it, Morra. If you don't set the goals, who will?