The Marine Corps' Plan for the Future of Ground Combat

**Ryan Evans** (0:11)
You are listening to the War on the Rocks podcast on strategy, defense, and foreign affairs. My name is Ryan Evans. I'm the founder of War on the Rocks. In this episode, I speak to two fantastic Marines, Major General Jason Morris and Colonel Eric Clark.
They were key members of the team that put together Ground Combat Element 2040, a brand new framework designed to guide the tactical evolution of Marine ground forces through the next 15 years. If you care about the future of warfare, this episode is for you. I start the episode by getting to know them a bit. Starting with you, why did you join the Marine Corps?

**Eric Clark** (0:45)
I grew up in Nebraska. We were rather poor, so I got to understand what poverty was like. So one of the reasons I joined the Marine Corps was for a steady paycheck and a place to eat. But really, I think the opportunities that I got, even as growing up poor in the Midwest, the educational opportunities and I was exposed to the armed services really created a sense of patriotism that I really saw being a Marine as a calling. I transitioned to be an officer after about eight years, stuck with it now. I'm coming up on my 36th year in the Marine Corps next year.

**Ryan Evans** (1:11)
Did your enlisted buddies give you a hard time when you became an officer?

**Eric Clark** (1:15)
Some of my best friends are retired corporals, quote unquote, retired corporals. One got NJP'd by Mattis, so he still has the paperwork hanging up on his wall. In the end, they're all tremendously proud.

**Ryan Evans** (1:27)
Some of my scariest friends are retired corporals. I don't know if my best, but yeah, definitely some of my scariest. What was your best job in the Marine Corps before the one you have now?

**Eric Clark** (1:34)
To steal it from General Kelly, squad leader. Yeah.
I freaking stick in love being a squad leader. The immediacy of the leadership there and impact you have every day on every aspect of a young Marine's life. And really, well, at the same time, you're figuring out yourself. And I just learned so much about being a leader from doing it wrong as a young corporal and a young sergeant. That was the very basis of some of the successes that I've seen as an officer, because I had the opportunity to get it wrong so often when I was younger, and got to work with quite a few unique personalities as a young squad leader.

**Ryan Evans** (2:06)
Who is the best boss you ever had that wasn't a general officer?

**Eric Clark** (2:10)
Bill Vivian.
He's out now. He was my regimental commander when I was a battalion commander. The way he engaged and the latitude and freedom he gave his commanders, and the willingness to absorb the friction, sometimes that caused him personally. Now that I look at it from the other end, I really think that he definitely earned my respect on some of the very difficult things that happen when you're in that position, and the way he would approach me when I was explaining a mistake that had been made or that I had made always really stuck with me. So Bill Vivian, he lives out in Colorado now.

**Ryan Evans** (2:45)
And you, General, why did you become a Marine?

**Jason Morris** (2:47)
I became a Marine because I wanted to serve my country, and I wanted the challenge of leading Marines to accomplish missions. And really, my father was a Marine, so I kind of had the Marine culture in me. I was raised in a family that was not active duty. My father had gotten out before I was born, but I always respected his Marine buddies who were his closest friends throughout his life. And he served six and a half years. He was a company commander in Vietnam, decided to resign his commission after that. And then he got out and went into business. So again, I was born after he had transitioned from the service. But the Marine Corps was something that I always highly respected, and I wanted to be a part of something bigger than myself. The patriotism, the opportunity to do physically challenging things and lead people at a very early age had a strong attraction to me. So I took a little bit of a different path from Colonel Clark. I went to the Naval Academy, graduated in 1992, and when it came time for me to decide what service I wanted to choose, I really looked around because my father kind of knew the challenges associated with leading Marines. He had been to war. He wanted me to look around, but ultimately we made the same decision to join the Marine Corps. So I wouldn't change a thing.