The crypto clash that could reshape finance (with Brian Armstrong)

**Brian Armstrong** (0:01)
It's about financial inclusion, right? There's something like 80% of Americans feel that the current financial system is not working for them, and crypto is this great democratizing force in terms of access to financial services.

**Dasha Burns** (0:13)
Hello, hello, and welcome to The Conversation. I'm Dasha Burns, and every week on this show, I talk to the most compelling and sometimes unexpected power players in Washington and beyond. And this week, I sat down with Brian Armstrong, co-founder and CEO of Coinbase. Coinbase is the largest cryptocurrency exchange in the world, and Armstrong has become the top crypto lobbyist in Washington. With that, he's been vocal with his thoughts on how the government should approach regulation.

**Brian Armstrong** (0:43)
I think Americans should be able to earn more money on their money. Banks should have to compete on a level playing field. And if the American people feel like the banks are not paying high enough interest rates and stablecoin rewards can offer them more, then maybe the banks should have to pay higher interest rates to compete.

**Dasha Burns** (0:57)
So as the cryptocurrency regulation debate rages on with legislation like the Clarity Act, I pressed Armstrong on how he sees this fight in his industry playing out. And folks, it is a fight. The Clarity Act asks legislators to answer the question, should crypto and classical banking be regulated in the same way? And it represents the new battle in the world of finance. As crypto comes to Washington, looking to compete with the political power of traditional banking. But before we dig into the world of crypto, please take a moment to make sure you're subscribed wherever you're watching or listening. And now, Brian Armstrong joins The Conversation.
Brian Armstrong, thank you so much for joining The Conversation.

**Brian Armstrong** (1:42)
Yeah, thanks for having me.

**Dasha Burns** (1:43)
I want to get right into it because you are really shaken up this town here. You're at the center of this big fight happening in Washington that could determine the future of cryptocurrency in this country and really the future of banking in a way. It's put you at odds with traditional banks like JPMorgan, whose CEO, Jamie Dimon, recently called you, quote, full of shit. I am quoting there.

**Jamie Dimon** (2:08)
It will be fought. This will not be, no one's going to bow down to this guy or that company. He's the only one. And he's spending hundreds of millions of dollars in watching to this thing.

**Dasha Burns** (2:19)
He said he's representing the whole industry.

**Jamie Dimon** (2:20)
He's full of shit.

**Dasha Burns** (2:21)
How do you respond to him?

**Brian Armstrong** (2:24)
Well, you know, I've got a lot of respect for Jamie Dimon. So it was kind of sad to hear that. JPMorgan is a great company. He's put up incredible numbers there. I feel like I've learned a lot from him as a CEO. And ultimately, this isn't really about Jamie Dimon or me, even though people like to focus on that. It's just about how we get clear rules in America so that this industry can get built here and benefit everyone. I think that would be good for American consumers. I think it'd be good for the banks. There's a whole set of new provisions and benefits that banks get in there. In this draft legislation, it'd be great for crypto companies as well.
Most importantly, it's good for America. So hopefully we can get past the absolutisms and just see if we can get this bill over the finish line.

**Dasha Burns** (3:04)
I hear your point on the policy piece. I think one of the reasons this has drawn so much attention is just because it's not very often that you hear one of the biggest CEOs in America talk like that about somebody else. I wonder why you think that you've sort of drawn so much personal animosity from Dimon, especially as you say when you have so much respect for him.

**Brian Armstrong** (3:24)
Yeah. Honestly, I'm a little perplexed by that. I think in general, when people communicate through the media, nuance gets lost. Same thing with social media.

**Dasha Burns** (3:33)
There's not a ton of nuance in full of shit, I have to say.

**Brian Armstrong** (3:37)
I agree. I think it's better just in general to get in a room and chat one-on-one with people. That usually solves it. I've had opportunities to do that with Jamie and other people on his team who are great in the past. And so, yeah, I don't know exactly what that's all about. Crypto, you have to remember, is the most bipartisan issue right now in DC, in my view. And just there's a lot of people on both sides of the aisle, not to mention 50 million Americans who have used crypto. There's about 3 million advocates who signed up to stand with crypto.org, who wanted to elect pro crypto candidates. So there's a big movement behind this of people who just want to see clear rules on the books.