The Counter Revolution: Victor Davis Hanson on the Fall and Rise of Trump (Part 1/2)

Peter Robinson (0:00)

Welcome to Uncommon Knowledge, I'm Peter Robinson. Today, Victor Davis Hanson on his new book, The Counter-Revolution, The Fall and Rise of Donald Trump and the MAGA Movement. Now, here's what you need to know. We've had Victor on this program a number of times over the years, and he and I have become friends.

And when we got to talking, we went on. So we've taken one conversation and divided it into two shows. Today, we'll start where the book itself starts, with the riots of January 6th, when it looked as though Donald Trump was finished.

And yet, two years later, he was re-elected President of the United States. The Fall and Rise of Donald Trump. Victor Davis Hanson on Uncommon Knowledge now.

Welcome to Uncommon Knowledge. I'm Peter Robinson. Victor Davis Hanson is a farmer in the San Joaquin Valley of California, a classical historian, see in particular his definitive work, The Western Way of War, Infantry Battle in Classical Greece, and a political commentator. A fellow at the Hoover Institution, Dr. Hanson has published more than 20 books. His latest, The Counter-Revolution, The Fall and Rise of Donald Trump and the MAGA Movement. Victor, welcome back.

Victor Davis Hanson (1:26)

Thank you for having me, Peter.

Peter Robinson (1:29)

Your book is now, as we sit here this morning, your book is number one on the New York Times non-fiction bestseller list.

Victor Davis Hanson (1:37)

I can't quite figure that out, but maybe it's a mistake.

Peter Robinson (1:41)

All right. You begin the book where I just began with the riot at the capital of January 6th.

Americans have been debating those events ever since, but there was complete agreement on one point, and that was that Trump was finished. Again, Senator Lindsey Graham, who then went on in the second term, the late Senator Lindsey Graham, to become, as he had been during much of the first term, possibly Donald Trump's staunchest supporter. But on January 6th, that evening, Senator Graham said this, Trump and I, we've had a hell of a journey. I hate to end it this way, but all I can say is, count me out. Enough is enough. A week after the riot, several Republican senators joined Democrats in voting to impeach Trump.

SPEAKER_3 (2:25)

They'll vote guilty or not guilty as required.

Peter Robinson (2:28)

As late as two years later, now we're in December 2022, polls showed that in the race for the Republican presidential nomination of that year, Donald Trump trailed Governor Ron DeSantis of Florida by 16 points. I have just told you a story of a man who was Finnish.

Victor Davis Hanson (2:43)

Yes.

Peter Robinson (2:45)

Yet, throughout the Biden years, Donald Trump was laying the basis for another run for president. What was he thinking?

Victor Davis Hanson (2:52)

Well, he was thinking four things.

Number one, and I outlined them in the book. He felt in the first term, he felt it had been successful to the COVID lockdown.

Peter Robinson (3:09)

Right.

Victor Davis Hanson (3:10)

He felt that...

Peter Robinson (3:11)

By the way, the economy grew robustly during those first three years.

Victor Davis Hanson (3:14)

Almost 3 percent. He had 1.8 percent inflation.

Peter Robinson (3:18)

He moved some important legislation through the economic legislation.

Victor Davis Hanson (3:21)

It was a very... but what he thought was...

Peter Robinson (3:23)

He had an argument, in other words, that those first three years...

Victor Davis Hanson (3:25)

He didn't really wage a counter-revolution. By that, I mean, he didn't go after PBS or NPR, or he was good on the border, but not like he is now. He didn't try to have a cultural, social, political, economic revolution. And he felt that he had just addressed the symptoms, not the causes of the Progressive Project. And he had people that were...

I would call them Beltway establishmentarians.

Peter Robinson (3:53)

In the administration, cabinet advisors. And they were people that are...

Victor Davis Hanson (3:56)

you know, our friend HR. McMaster, great person. He had Jim Mattis, another Hoover fellow. He had John Kelly. He had, at one point, Steve Mnuchin, John Bolton. They were either centrist or conservatives, but they were not MAGA people.

So whether that was true or not, and I discuss it in the book, he felt that either they were not going to advance his movement or they were gonna... They were masters of bureaucracy that might try to distort it. I think in the case of...

Peter Robinson (4:29)

Washington operatives rather than...

Victor Davis Hanson (4:31)

Yeah, I think in the case of...

Peter Robinson (4:31)

Revolutionaries.

Victor Davis Hanson (4:32)

HR. McMaster, he's a different case. I think he was using his expertise to translate Trumpism into an effective policy. But that was one thing that drove him. I've got to finish this, and next time, I'm gonna get loyalist, and they're all gonna be hyper MAGA people. And we saw the... And that's what he has now, and you saw the excesses, the crazy nomination of Matt Gaetz, you know, that...