The Charm Offensive That Isn't

**Da Wei** (0:03)
Rowhome Productions.

**Jane Perlez** (0:06)
This project is made possible by the generous support of the Carnegie Corporation.

**Da Wei** (0:14)
Let's go, vamos. Let's go to the Forbidden City, tap.

**Jane Perlez** (0:19)
Last spring, American YouTuber Darren Watkins Jr., known to his fans as iShowSpeed or just Speed, live streamed his trip to China to his nearly 40 million followers. After the Forbidden City, y'all, we got a lot more stuff to do to stream, it's going to be a long one. Long is an understatement. This particular day, he live streamed in Beijing for six hours, touring the Forbidden City, chatting with Chinese kids, taking selfies, singing songs with Chinese aunties, and then ending his day with a hike along the Great Wall.

**Da Wei** (0:57)
We got the Great Wall, baby.

**Jane Perlez** (0:59)
Great Wall of China. We gotta get to the top, boys.

**Da Wei** (1:03)
Oh, shit.

**Rana Mitter** (1:04)
Get to the top, boys.

**Jane Perlez** (1:05)
Damn.

**Rana Mitter** (1:06)
Ain't nobody gonna tell me it's a damn mission to get up here.

**Jane Perlez** (1:09)
Even huffing up the endless steps of the Great Wall, his enthusiasm for China never flagged, and people loved it, both Americans and Chinese. He gained millions of Chinese followers over the course of his short trip, including one important fan, the Chinese government. The Chinese Embassy in Washington posted on their social media, We welcome more American friends to bridge cultural gaps and offer unfiltered glimpses into the country. Chinese state media widely publicized Speed's visit as a soft power moment for the country. Then, of course, there were the critics. This is the Internet, after all. Naysayers accused Speed of being a propaganda tool and getting paid by the Chinese government, even going so far as calling him a spy. We don't know whether China paid for Speed or not. But can the government really engineer soft power? Will social media influencers singing songs with Chinese aunties on TikTok really move the needle on US-China relations?
I'm Jane Perlez, and this is FaceOff, a show about U.S.-China relations. Today on the show, we're talking about soft power, from social media influences to humanitarian aid and everything in between. Trump is striking hard at American soft power. He's making it tough for international students to come to the US. He's gutted billions of dollars from foreign aid. He's taking the US out of UNESCO to mention just a few things that harm America's image overseas. As Trump squanders America's soft power, can China fill the vacuum? Does China even want to fill the vacuum? Chinese Professor Da Wei isn't so sure.

**Da Wei** (3:03)
So the US has been less attractive, maybe, to the rest of the world, but that does not mean China will naturally become more attractive than the United States.

**Jane Perlez** (3:13)
Da Wei is our guest on the show today. He said we should look at soft power in terms of a love triangle.

**Da Wei** (3:20)
You know, if I want to date with a girl, for example, and she just broke up with his ex, does that breaking up mean I can successfully have my girl? I don't think so.

**Jane Perlez** (3:32)
Yes, the world may be falling out of love with America, but that doesn't mean the world is going to automatically fall head over heels for China.

**Da Wei** (3:41)
Soft power is about this attraction, right? Influence other countries by attraction. You need to be attractive.

**Jane Perlez** (3:48)
When Wei said that, I thought, wow, I didn't expect that. He is currently a professor of international relations at Tsinghua University in Beijing. I got the pleasure of chatting with him in person at a studio at Yale where I asked him flat out, so just how will China capitalize on this soft power vacuum that Trump has created?

**Da Wei** (4:09)
It seems like a good opportunity for China, right? From the perspective of US. China competition. But I have to say, I live in Beijing. I feel that China is also a little bit reluctant to do more, because we understand that, you know, invest in the global governance is something quite difficult and quite expensive. China's economy is not in a very good shape. There is a kind of, I will say, fatigue about this kind of foreign or international global endeavor. So I think for that reason, my hunch is China will continue to do what we have done in past 10 years or five years. If the US influence is declining and we continue to do what we are doing, I think that's good enough for China. I don't think we need to invest more.