The British State Hates its Own People - Dr David Starkey

**Konstantin Kisin** (0:00)
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**David Starkey** (1:26)
avocadogreenmattress.com/something had gone structurally wrong with Britain. We are a state which has turned against its people. All three parties of the right are realizing that they're not dealing with a series of separate problems. You're dealing with a single central issue, which is that the British state has stopped working. We are genuinely, I think, at a moment, I would argue of a national crisis, which is comparable only to the first and second world wars. There has to be a reunion of the right, and that the only basis for that reunion is policy. But they're fighting each other.
And I despair.

**Konstantin Kisin** (2:12)
If Britain survives, why did you say that?

**David Starkey** (2:16)
Because I think it is possible that it won't.

**Francis Foster** (2:22)
Dr. David Starkey, welcome back to TRIGGERnometry.

**David Starkey** (2:24)
A pleasure to be back.

**Francis Foster** (2:25)
Well, it's a pleasure to have you on the show. You've been on the show a gazillion times. Typically, to talk about your great error expertise, which is, of course, history. Always fun and fascinating, and we will do more of those episodes in the future, I hope. But today, we wanted to talk about the present and what's happening in this country today, and particularly what's happening on the right of British politics.
This is shortly before the by-election. We don't quite know what will happen there, although there is some inkling as to what will happen, which is likely a labor victory.
You know all the players involved on all sides of this conversation. You yourself, I think, is a conservative who's now moved in the reform direction.

**David Starkey** (3:07)
Is that fair? I am, I remain a nominal member of the conservative party. I am friendly to everybody on the right.

**Francis Foster** (3:16)
And that being the case, what do you see as happening?

**David Starkey** (3:21)
You mean in the by-election?

**Francis Foster** (3:22)
No, not in the by-election.

**David Starkey** (3:24)
More generally.

**Francis Foster** (3:25)
What is, what are the big tectonic plates and how are they moving?

**David Starkey** (3:29)
What I think is striking is they're moving in two completely different directions. If you look at the level of personalities, there is increasingly radical division.
Typified by the campaigning that's taken place in the Maker's Field by-election, in which, as it were, it's a war, it's Hobbesian, it's a war of all against all. And that Restore is yapping at the heels of reform. Reform continues to denounce the Taurus. You'd almost think that they weren't actually fighting, that they weren't fighting Andy Burnham, but just fighting each other. And so there is, and there are vicious personal hostilities between those who've gone over to reform, like Robert Jenrick and Suella Braverman, and those who remain within the Conservative Party, and even those like Katie Lamb and Jack Rankin, who I think there isn't a sheet of paper between them, and Jenrick, or indeed Farage, as to what they think, profound personal hurt was done by the way and the timing that Robert went over. So there's a series of profound bad blood.
On the other hand, if you look in the other direction, Francis, and you look at policy, what is very striking is how close everybody is moving to each other. And this, I think, is, this for me is the really important thing. When you ask me the question of where do I stand, what my own view is, and it's also very much the view of Jacob Rees-Mogg, that there has to be a reunion of the right, and that the only basis for that reunion is policy.