The battle in rural America against AI data centres

**Anthony Zurcher** (0:00)
Hello, it's Anthony, and you're about to hear Americast. We're delighted to have you with us. And if you enjoy what you hear, please do consider subscribing to the podcast. That way, you'll never miss an episode. Now, on with today.

**Justin Webb** (0:13)
Stan in Brighton in the UK has been in touch. I was wondering, says Stan, whether you could cover the recently approved Stratos Data Center in Utah. As a UK listener, I find it equal parts fascinating and concerning that such a project has been approved. It would be great to hear your thoughts on it and the wider implications for the politics of the AI revolution in the US. Well, Stan, we're going to do exactly what you tell us to do, as we always do. You're of course, dead right. It is a massive, massive American story. It's not actually much covered or maybe not covered as much as it should be. It's not just in Utah, where that campus is apparently going to be 62 square miles, but it's also all around the US. So opposition is growing to these huge data centers right around the country, including New York, where a one-year moratorium on large data centers has just been passed. So is the AI revolution changing the landscape of rural America? And if it is, can people stop it? Do they, in large numbers, want to? Welcome to Americast.
Americast.

**SPEAKER_5** (1:19)
Americast from BBC News.

**Justin Webb** (1:21)
You hear that sound?

**Anthony Zurcher** (1:22)
Oh, I think when I hear that sound, it reminds me of money.

**SPEAKER_6** (1:26)
We didn't start this war, but under President Trump, we are finishing it. This is a big cover-up and this administration is engaged in it.

**Justin Webb** (1:34)
This guy has Trump's arrangement syndrome.

**SPEAKER_5** (1:36)
I have four words for you.

**SPEAKER_6** (1:39)
Turn the volume up.

**Anthony Zurcher** (1:45)
Hello, it's Anthony in Washington, DC.

**Justin Webb** (1:48)
And it's Justin in the worldwide headquarters of Americast in London, England. And we're going to be joined later on, aren't we, Anthony? By Robert Bryce, the energy journalist, friend of the pod, who's written very extensively about data centers and AI, and indeed studied them in extraordinary detail. But Anthony, there is no doubt at all, is there, that they are worthy of being studied at the moment? Because again and again, in state after state, they matter.

**Anthony Zurcher** (2:11)
They do.
And is local opposition. It's not just local opposition from the usual suspects, environmentalists, not in my backyard activists, but from conservatives from a broad spectrum of American politics at the local level who are objecting to these massive buildings that house computers and servers and various equipment to process AI computing for these big AI companies. And it's the local people who say it's taking too much resources, it's taking up too much space, their eyes soars and they also view possibly them having adverse health consequences for those who live by them. So it's a big issue here in the United States. Is it that big in the UK?

**Justin Webb** (2:58)
No, weirdly it's not yet because we don't have them yet of anything like the scale. But of course, we are also, as is the entire Western world, we're all looking along these lines that AI not only brings with it all sorts of threats and benefits to daily life, but also has to be kept going. And the business of keeping it going does require huge amounts of energy. But of course, it's not just energy, is it Anthony? And this is why it's such a big deal in the States. Yes, it's electricity and it affects electricity prices, etc. And some people think it keeps them artificially high and they want politicians to intervene. But it's also things like water, isn't it? I mean, it's a pretty basic threat, as a lot of local people see it, to their way of life.

**Anthony Zurcher** (3:45)
Right. It sucks up a lot of water to keep all of this equipment cool.
But AI is the hot thing right now, right? I mean, there have been people who have said that AI investment is keeping the US economy and the US stock market afloat, all this money pouring in, in hopes of having big payoffs, is the reason why the American economy has been able to push through some of these headwinds it's been facing. Companies like Microsoft, Google, Meta, OpenAI, they're building these data centers to power their AI computing projects. Here's Sam Altman, he's the CEO of OpenAI, talking in Michigan about the construction of a data center there.

**Sam Altman** (4:27)
We know how complex of a project this is. We know what the current attitude towards data centers in the world is. I'll come back to this, but I think we can make this a great example for the future. This could very well turn into the site where cancer gets cured.