The Azelaic Acid Debate, Spicules & Skincare Myths with @DermAngelo and @GlowByRamon

Carlene Higgins (0:01)

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Welcome to Breaking Beauty, the podcast all about the breakthrough people, products, and moments in beauty.

Jill Dunn (0:14)

We're your hosts, Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins.

Welcome back to Breaking Beauty Podcast. We are Jill and Carlene. We are two longtime magazine beauty editors and beauty podcasters who are in your feed with the breakthrough people, products, and moments in beauty every single week for over 450 episodes. Say, Carlene.

Carlene Higgins (0:37)

Hey.

And our guests this week are newly minted beauty podcasters themselves. Thrilled to welcome the dynamic duo behind Divine Skintervention podcast. We have Dr. Angelo Landriscina and Ramón Pagán where, and I quote, each episode delves into the phenomena defining aesthetics, personal care, and the current zeitgeist to unlock the celestial truths surrounding beauty with a side of sass.

Jill Dunn (1:06)

Welcome.

Angelo Landriscina (1:08)

Welcome, angels.

Carlene Higgins (1:09)

Thanks for having us.

Angelo Landriscina (1:11)

This is a big deal for us. I feel like you're our beauty podcasting forbearers. Oh, yeah. And so this kind of like makes it a little bit more official.

Carlene Higgins (1:20)

Well, we're just so excited. And Ramón, we're so excited to welcome you back because you were on our podcast just earlier this year. And we're going to have some fun. Yeah.

Jill Dunn (1:29)

And if you didn't catch the episode with Ramón, I'm going to let you know a little bit about him. He is a New York City based cosmetic chemist, product developer, aesthetician, content creator. And he's known as Glow by Ramón on social media where over 350,000 followers watch what he's up to, whether that's making products that he's run out of. You can just whip those up because he's a cosmetic chemist.

SPF Truths and so much more. And our episode with Ramón was earlier this year. It was all about how to shop for skincare like a cosmetic chemist. So you gotta check that out.

Carlene Higgins (2:01)

Yeah, we'll link to that in our show notes. And we're equally excited to welcome Dr. Angelo Landriscina. Hello.

Jill Dunn (2:08)

Hello.

Carlene Higgins (2:09)

A New York City based board certified dermatologist, researcher and founder of Sun Protective Clothing Line Soul-A.

Jill Dunn (2:17)

And you might know him better as at DermAngelo on social media. More than 1.5 million followers he boasts across social. And you may recognize his signature dermatologist here.

His response video where he pipes in sometimes to take down bogus skincare info online. And DermAngelo is also dedicated to LGBTQ plus focused dermatology and skin health education.

Carlene Higgins (2:42)

In this episode, we're gonna cover the azelaic acid debate that you may have seen online. We're gonna talk about the truth about spicules, which you may not have seen online yet, and so much more.

Jill Dunn (2:55)

And a heads up, this is a crossover pod swap. So you're humble hosts, we are gonna be on Divine Skintervention. So check out their episode where we're gonna be featured as well. So once again, welcome to both of you.

Carlene Higgins (3:08)

Thank you. Okay, well, I think we have to start with your new podcast, Divine Skintervention. How did this get started between the two of you?

Ramón Pagán (3:16)

Allegedly, we've talked about this before. I do not remember that conversation. But Angelo and I have done a lot of collaboration together in the past for like long form. And anytime I come into town, we'd always get together, have lunch, kiki, chit chat.

And so he actually approached me once I moved here this year. And he was like, let's finally do it.

Jill Dunn (3:35)

Yeah.

Well, it's time for our first Divine Skintervention, everybody. When it comes to skincare ingredients, what are both of you making of the Azelaic Acid Debate? So to recap this, there was a lot of videos on social media about the Anua Azelaic Acid and similar Korean Azelaic Acid Serums that maybe they weren't living up to the claims that were on the bottle, that they were a scam on account of the fact that they use pH neutralization as a strategy to deliver Azelaic Acid. What do both of you make of this or did you follow this online?

Ramón Pagán (4:06)

I did see a lot of it, especially regarding, like you're mentioning, what does the pH, what does the overall formulation actually contain? I can't confirm. They do contain 10% Azelaic Acid when it comes to the actual formula composition. I think some people who...

Can I get nasty? Of course. I think some people who had no business getting online talking about this got online and it blew up because people love the concept of, I was scammed, I was duped. But fundamentally, A, it's not impossible to solubilize Azelaic Acid in solution. Neutralization strategy does facilitate that. Something else to consider though is there's other players in these formulas. For example, brands launching Azelaic Acid and Niacinamide. And when you have multiple actives in a formula, you have to have the solution in a range where the pH is adequate for the majority of those actives. Niacinamide and Azelaic Acid, they are optimal in different pH ranges. You're like, where's that middle ground?