The Axe Files presents Offline with Jon Favreau

**David Axelrod** (0:08)
The Axe Files listeners, we hope you've enjoyed the podcast we've shared with you the last couple of weeks, and we have one final favorite for you this week, a podcast from my friends at Crooked Media called Offline. Hosted by the great Jon Favreau, Offline is a different kind of Sunday show. It's a chance to step away from the news cycle to hear conversations about all the ways our extremely online existence is shaping everything from politics and culture to the ways we live, work and interact with one another. In this episode, Jon talks to Ev Williams, co-founder and former CEO of Twitter. The two discussed Twitter's early years, including the design decisions behind some of the app's most important features.
Ev also shares his thoughts on whether Trump should be allowed back on the platform and he talks about Twitter's newest board member and largest shareholder, Elon Musk. I should note this was recorded prior to Musk's attempt to purchase Twitter.
I hope you enjoy the conversation. If you do, be sure to check out other episodes of Offline with Jon Favreau wherever you get your podcasts. And we'll be back with a new episode of The Axe Files next week.

**Jon Favreau** (1:20)
What was your reaction to Elon becoming not only a passive investor, but now a seemingly very active investor who's on the board?

**Ev Williams** (1:26)
I think it's interesting.
I'm very impressed with what Elon has done in the world and his approach to PR and tweeting and everything else. He's fascinating.
I'm fascinated like anyone else. I appreciate what he's doing with Tesla. I have a Tesla, hope to go to Mars someday, but is he good for Twitter? I don't know. It would make the board meetings more interesting. Who knows how Elon even has time to pay attention to Twitter and everything else instead of passing fancy?

**Jon Favreau** (2:02)
We'll see.
I'm Jon Favreau. Welcome to Offline.
Hey, everyone. My guest today is Ev Williams, co-founder of Twitter and its former chairman and CEO. Every week, I conclude this introduction with a call to action asking for your comments and complaints. And every week, we open the offline inbox and see a familiar message. Jon talks about Twitter too much. Absolutely right. No argument for me on that. But there are a few reasons I talk about Twitter so much. A, I'm an addict. B, most people in media and politics, which is what I do for a living, are also addicts. And C, because most people in media and politics are on Twitter, the platform has an outsized influence on shaping our views and understanding of the world around us. And that's even true of people who don't use Twitter.
So I think the platform is fairly central to the story of what's gone wrong with the Internet. Which is why there's no way I could pass up an opportunity to talk to one of its founders. Someone who also told The New York Times back in 2017, I think the Internet is broken. Ev was in the room when some of the earliest design decisions were made about Twitter. The character limit, the retweet, the follow function. And from 2008 to 2010, Twitter's most formative years, Ev served as the company's CEO. Before Twitter, he founded Blogger, which made publishing on the Internet accessible to everyone. Today, he serves as CEO of Medium, a social publishing platform he started in 2013, where articles are much, much longer than 280 characters. We talked about Twitter's earliest days, why he pivoted to a platform for long-form writing, and what he thinks about Twitter's evolution, the good, the bad, and the ugly. I also asked him about two men who have shaped Twitter more than any other, Elon Musk, who as of this week is Twitter's largest shareholder and newest board member, and of course, Donald Trump. As always, if you have any questions, comments, or complaints about how I talk too much about Twitter, feel free to email us at offline at crooked.com.
And of course, please rate, review, and share the show. Here's Ev Williams.
Ev Williams, welcome to Offline.

**Ev Williams** (4:19)
Thanks for having me.

**Jon Favreau** (4:21)
So, this is a show about all the ways the Internet is breaking our brains, and just about every episode inevitably includes a discussion about Twitter, probably because I'm a long time addict being in media and politics.
I certainly won't make you answer for all the platform sins. I know you're not there anymore, but I'd love to talk about how we got to this point and where we might go from here, which I know you thought a lot about. And I guess my first question is, when you guys created Twitter, what was the dream? What were your greatest hopes for the platform?