The Art of True Happiness | Dr. Arthur Brooks

Arthur Brooks (0:00)

There are three macronutrients to the happiest life. The happiest people have enjoyment, satisfaction and meaning. Those are the three macronutrients. Now, that's important because it means you need to enjoy your life, and you need to know the difference between enjoyment and pleasure, which many people don't. I mean, the pursuit of pleasure is not the secret to happiness, it's the secret to rehab. Satisfaction, which is the joy of an accomplishment or an activity after struggle, and last but not least is meaning. The why of your existence, the happiest people have a bead on those three things, and they pursue those three things really, really actively. Now, inside all three of those things, there's this funny thing called unhappiness.

Inside each of the macronutrients of happiness, you find discontent and frustration and a lot of suffering.

If you spend your life, which many people do today, trying to avoid unhappiness, trying to avoid and eliminate suffering, they will paradoxically miss their own happiness.

Andrew D. Huberman (0:59)

Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.

I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is Dr. Arthur Brooks.

Arthur Brooks is a professor at Vanderbilt University and a senior fellow at the Harvard Business School.

Today, we discuss what makes people truly happy and what this thing we call happiness is really all about. What I love about Arthur Brooks and what you'll realize today is that he looks to experimental data, philosophy, his and others' experiences to arrive at specific questions that you can ask yourself to determine what matters most to you and what stands in the way of you actually getting those things. In fact, I must say this episode with Arthur Brooks is one of my favorite ever on the Huberman Lab podcast. He is brutally honest. He's open. He's generous with knowledge that can help you, the listener, and he's incredibly humble. Thanks to Arthur, the conversation you're about to hear is one that I'm confident you'll want to think about, act on, and come back to periodically. I can say for myself with certainty that it's the conversation I wish I had heard long ago. Arthur doesn't have all the answers, nor does he claim to, but I do think he has a sort of hardened compass and a set of maps that we can all apply to have a much better and indeed a great life. Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, today's episode does include sponsors. And now for my conversation with Dr. Arthur Brooks. Dr. Arthur Brooks, welcome.

Arthur Brooks (2:42)

Thank you, Dr. Andrew Huberman.

Andrew D. Huberman (2:44)

We're only gonna call each other Dr. Once at the beginning of this podcast. So happy you're here.

Arthur Brooks (2:48)

Me too.

Andrew D. Huberman (2:49)

Yeah, I consider you a friend.

Before we became friends, you were already my teacher. I was learning a ton from you. You have a ton of wisdom. And before you step into your humble self and push aside, I just really want to highlight that because there are a lot of people influencing, educating, advising, coaching, et cetera. But you represent really the confluence of ideas and practices and wisdom in ways that I and people can really understand and benefit from. So really looking forward to having you here.

Arthur Brooks (3:23)

Thank you, likewise. What you've done over the past now five and a half years with this podcast.

Andrew D. Huberman (3:29)

Just about, yeah.

Arthur Brooks (3:30)

You changed the whole way that educators can reach a lot of people. What we want is educators, science and the public interest. We want to touch people's lives. We want to lift them up and bring them together using science, using ideas. And how, how, how do you do that? You showed the way. Because what you did was you started this podcast within six months.

It was a big deal. And what you showed was a whole generation of people, younger and older than you. I'm older than you.

That this is something that people can do, that we can reach people. You made that possible. You made that possible for me. It was an incredible gift.

Andrew D. Huberman (4:03)

Well, I'm honored and thank you. I realized today that perhaps the toughest part about this conversation is going to be to make sure that I keep you focused on you a little bit. You're so humble, but I appreciate the kind words. And I consider us colleagues and friends. So you're known as the happiness guy. You know a lot about it, what it is and what it isn't. So let's start with first principles there that people can really wrap their head around and apply.