The African Bitcoin Carry Trade Wall Street Can't Touch w/ Stafford Massie | BMP Ep 13

**Stafford Masie** (0:00)
What we're doing with Bitcoin is different. If you go to a guy that can service a loan in Zimbabwe at 20% a month, and you come to him and say, Noah, I've got Bitcoin backed fiat capital to provide to you at 10% per annum, that business transforms. That person then wants to understand what Bitcoin is. We don't need to do 1,000 Bitcoins, 2,000 Bitcoins. We're interested in 2,000 lives, 3,000 lives. So we have this number that drives us. 1 Bitcoin equals 5 to 8 African jobs.

**Brandon Green** (0:36)
Welcome back to the Bitcoin Magazine Podcast. I'm your host, Brandon Green. With us this week, we had the Stafford Massie from the Africa Bitcoin Corporation.
We had a phenomenal conversation talking about not just what their take on a Bitcoin treasury company is, which I'll give you a little hint, a little teaser. It's a lot different from what the US Bitcoin Treasury companies are.
And we go into why that is and what the landscape of Africa is looking like for Bitcoin adoption, and really like what Bitcoin is in Africa, because it's not the same as how Bitcoin is being used in Western capital markets, or in the US, or even other places around the world. I had a great conversation, a great time. I think you're really going to enjoy this episode. And so without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, Stafford Massie. Welcome to the Bitcoin Magazine Podcast. I'm your host Brandon Green. With us today, we have Stafford Massie talking about the Africa Bitcoin Corporation, but really more broadly than just what is happening with Bitcoin adoption in Africa. So very excited to jump in and it's great to have you on the show, man.

**Stafford Masie** (1:46)
Thanks. Thanks. First time meeting you. And it's awesome to speak to you in person. I've seen you a couple of times on stages. And I think at some of the Bitcoin events, we've kind of passed past each other. So yeah, finally get to sit down one on one with you.

**Brandon Green** (1:57)
Yeah, very much so. Well, so, you know, obviously this is a conversation that not a lot of people know a ton about, you know, what is happening right now with Bitcoin adoption in Africa and in South Africa and so on. And so maybe we should just start there. Like, what are the trends that you're seeing right now with Bitcoin in, you know, the continent and then as well sort of is in South Africa?

**Stafford Masie** (2:23)
So the way Bitcoin is adopted here is, I want to say it by opening up and saying like Bitcoin was made for us, right? Not for you guys. You know, we live in a world where number go up, number go down, has less of an influence. You know, for us, sovereignty, immutability, mobility, decentralization, those core attributes that I think a lot of people have forgotten what this asset is about, is still personified and lives itself out in Africa. You know, when you go to an African and you talk about debasement, you know, it's very different from debasement when you talk to an American. An American looks at like 4% and 7%.
You know, we look at 40 to 70% in an afternoon. You guys talk about it like 47% annually. So for us, debasement of currencies, we live. It's not conceptual to us. We don't have to wait for years and years to actually see what inflation does. We don't have to wait years and years and years to experience when a general takes over the political regime and he takes away your title deed and he suddenly owns the banks and all the property is his and all the money is his. We experience that. We know the difference between gold and Bitcoin. It doesn't need to be explained to us. When you walk in South Africa, Ghana, Nigeria, Kenya, and you speak to an African about Bitcoin without saying Bitcoin, you just explain the attributes of the asset, we get it in five minutes. I find that when we go to Europe or the United States and we talk about Bitcoin, you've got to take your time because it's almost a skeuomorphic view of like, okay, why would I need this thing and how does it fit into my life? Because I have a bank account, I got a credit card, I can transfer through a mobile app. All of these more modern derivatives of fiat that makes the perception and the conceptualization of Bitcoin very, very difficult. For us, what we find on the streets in Africa, people love it, they use it. I think we've got some of the highest adoption rates in the entire world, both on the merchant acceptance side, all the way through to utilizing it as money. For us, it's a medium of exchange, and in many places in Africa, we've got circular economies where this thing is a unit of account. Example, we got places like where I'm in South Africa, Bitcoin Ecosy. I think that's probably the most popular one, the most well-known one, and that's a circular economy. But outside of that is the Witsun community, the fire was lit, and we got more and more people accepting Bitcoin as a medium of exchange because they understand the value of it. I mean, you got kids in these circular economies that won't even accept dollars. They don't want a dollar. They don't want a pound. They don't want a yen. They don't want a rand. They don't want other stuff. They want Bitcoin. Because they understand when I have Bitcoin, my life changes. I think what we see with the surfer guys, we have a group of surfers down in Bitcoin Ecosy, and there's actually a nonprofit within Bitcoin Ecosy, where these surfer kids are earning Bitcoin, not fiat currency, and because they're earning Bitcoin, I asked the leaders over there, what did you notice relative to the kids? Two things. Number one, they don't have to worry as much about affording that ticket next year for that particular competition. Because when they're holding any other fiat currency, they don't know if that fiat currency will have the buying power next year to buy the ticket to compete with the Australian or the American.