Thérèse of Lisieux: Listener Questions (Part Two)

SPEAKER_1 (0:00)

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James Finley (0:08)

Greetings. I'm Jim Finley.

Kirsten Oates (0:11)

And I'm Kirsten Oates.

James Finley (0:13)

Welcome to Turning to the Mystics.

Kirsten Oates (0:23)

Welcome, everyone, to season 13 of Turning to the Mystics, where we've been turning to St. Thérèse of Lisieux.

And I'm here with Jim for part two of our listener questions. Okay, this question is from Diane. I identify quite a bit with Thérèse as a little flower instead of all the gorgeous showy flowers out there. Perhaps this is why I let the dandelions bloom on my lawn, those bright little orbs of sunshine in spring, while my neighbor spends hours and effort poking them out one by one. As a young hothead Christian and a probable one on the enneagram, I imagined myself as a mover and shaker, or at least aligning my talents with important movements for justice and change in the world. Reflecting back as a 70-year-old, I built a very small world simply caring for the ones closest to me and imperfectly too.

My son has intellectual disabilities and my daughter mental health issues. Writing poetry has helped me immeasurably to process the life I live, and I am content and happy. Recently, I self-published a small book of poetry. Jim, you quoted Thomas Aquinas in the bonus episode with Richard Rohr. God is more a tree than a tree could ever possibly be. That touched me deeply as trees are very dear to me. I would be grateful to learn where you know that quote from, and if you could provide the exact wording.

James Finley (1:49)

You know, a couple of things struck me listening to what you're sharing here about yourself. See, back in the day when you were the firebrand, you know, out there fighting for social justice, that was your way of being holy then. But as we get older, we have to keep evolving into our present way.

So taking care of someone who has special needs, writing poetry, you know, the wisdom of the elders, like dropping down into the ordinariness of how you're providentially with God now.

In terms of God's more of a tree than a tree could ever possibly be. Before I learned this, is I had the opportunity to study medieval philosophical theology of St. Thomas Aquinas at the monastery. Had a deep effect on me, really. St. Augustine and Duns Scotus and Bonaventure. Dan Walsh is quoting that as St. Thomas Aquinas said it that way. Whether he said it specifically, that's how Dan Walsh said it. God is more treasonous. But how he meant it was, and this is in Assumma Theologica, there's a kind of a very poetic way of looking at this. See, in the beginning, God said, let there be light, let there be stones and trees and stars and so on. So when God created trees, God didn't have to think up what trees might be. Gosh, I wonder why. Let's figure out how to do this one. Because from all eternity, in the beginning was the word and the word was with God, and the word was God, and all things were made through him. And without him has been made nothing that has been made. So from all of eternity, God the Father, in contemplating the word, contemplates trees in God's Christ mind. And that's the eternality of trees. So when God said, let there be trees, when we look out, these are trees. So in ego consciousness, we don't see this. We sit under to have an apple or read a book or cut it down or some darn thing. But if we contemplate a tree, like the thing about Brother Lawrence, when we contemplate a tree or gaze into a fire, we can see the divinity of trees, like the holiness of trees this way. That's always been a big thing for me, really mystically. I think the mystics are so, like the world is God's body.

It is bodying forth the love that's uttering it into being. This way, the mountains and the rivers and the darkness of the night. So in the Summa Theologica, you can look this up. I think it will give passages. But I want to say this. It's difficult. Because unless you're trained to understand that, someone to help you get inside that language. I'm going to be doing some of this in the podcast a little bit with Aquinas as a mystic. But it's challenging unless you're trained in the use of metaphysical language. It might be just enough, more than enough. Just have that lovely phrase. And just know that it's true.